The Tapes Archive

Ray Manzarek: Hello?

Marc Allan: Hi, Ray?

Ray Manzarek: Yes.

Marc Allan: It’s Marc Allan in Indianapolis.

Ray Manzarek: Hi, how are you?

Marc Allan: Very good.

Marc Allan: Good you’re expecting me right?

Ray Manzarek: Was I supposed to call you?

Marc Allan: No I was, well originally, but then they called me and said, call him so–

Ray Manzarek: Good, very good, hi Marc.

Marc Allan: Hi, that’s how I got the number. You’re not on information are ya?

Ray Manzarek: Not yet.

Marc Allan: You’re not the book.

Ray Manzarek: But I may put my name in there just to receive a lot of prank phone calls, all those strange guys who want to reform The Door’s with them as the lead singer. These guys are usually sort of speed freaks out of the High Desert here in California. 2000 years ago, they’d have been followers of Jesus, or they’re Essenes or some strange cult or something, but as it is, they’re looking to be in the new Jim Morrison.

Marc Allan: Yeah, yeah, there are many things I want to ask you but since you brought that up, there was always the rumor that Iggy Pop was gonna become the frontman and The Doors.

Ray Manzarek: That’s true.

Marc Allan: That is true? Okay.

Ray Manzarek:  Yeah. Well, he wasn’t going to become, but I mean, we were talking about different lead singers then,

Marc Allan: Right?

Ray Manzarek: Iggy Pop was one of the guys.

Marc Allan: And how far did that get?

Ray Manzarek: Well, it was talk. It was mostly talk. We never got anybody. We talked about a lot of guys. We talked about Iggy, we talked about Mick Jagger. He already had a band. And then we talked about off the wall, Paul McCartney, good singer and a bass player. Hey, we could get a bass player, so, but that didn’t quite work out.

Marc Allan: So this book, why did you write it now?

Ray Manzarek: It’s my transition into the 21st-century book. It’s to help the audience, to help the young people who may not have an idea as to what the sixties were all about. To make it over this apocalyptic transition that we’re in right now, this millennial apocalyptic transition period. And to know that there are some older people that carry the torch of love

Marc Allan: I think all this millennium stuff is ridiculously overblown.

Ray Manzarek: Well, not if you’re a born again, not if you’re a true believer in the apocalyptic nature of the book of the apocalypse, and which I am not, but many, many people are. They sincerely believe that these are the end times. So, I’m trying to allay those fears. That’s a real paranoid, dark, paranoic, fearful way of approaching the universe. I want the young people to know that there’s another way to approach God and man, and existence. And that this is how we did it in the sixties. Maybe you guys might find some inspiration or some guidance in it. So that’s why I’m doing it. And plus all those crap-assed books about Jim. Holy cow. I mean, enough was enough already, I got sick of those crap-assed books. God almighty people writing books who gave Jim a blowjob. And are all of a sudden his love for life? Like God, stop it will you? I had anal sex with Jim Morrison’s witch-wife or something. I don’t want to, those books are sick, sick. So anyway, that’s why I did it.

Marc Allan: And so do you feel like what you guys did and lived through was a good example for the youth?

Ray Manzarek: Well, what we, yeah, what we all lived through, but we did and what we lived through collectively, absolutely, yeah. The fact that Jim Morrison died as a cautionary tale, but as far as what we created and how we created it, then the vibrations, dare I say it in this day and age, the vibrations that existed between the audience and the people was something to emulate. And if you’re into the Bible, Jesus says, see how good it is for brethren to dwell together in harmony. That’s in fact, what we did, on stage, at the film or playing for a bunch of hippies in San Francisco, it was incredible. The sixties were incredible. I wish you had written a bit more about the artistry about how those songs were written and things like that.

Marc Allan: Even more?

Ray Manzarek: Yes. Even more. Even more?

Marc Allan: Yeah. ‘Cause personally we’ve heard all the Jim Morrison tales.

Ray Manzarek: Yeah but never heard any of those stories that I told.

Marc Allan: No, and probably haven’t heard them true until now, but that I made–

Ray Manzarek: You didn’t know about Miami. I mean, you’d heard about Miami, but you didn’t hear that story the way I tell it about Miami.

Marc Allan: Right.

Ray Manzarek: What happened in Miami. Yeah, well, that’s interesting. I’m glad for you to say that ’cause would have been fun well kind of fun, but–

Marc Allan: Yeah, because I was just interested in how, in the writing of the music.

Ray Manzarek: How did the music come about?

Marc Allan: Yeah, where did all this stuff come from, because it’s all credited to The Door’s but where? Okay, so–

Ray Manzarek: Well okay, well it’s like, you know what, it’s a lot “Light My Fire” for Jim Morrison singing “Moonlight Drive” to me on the beach. Or, I couldn’t, I don’t know, if I could go through song right now.

Marc Allan: No, I mean I wouldn’t expect you to go song by song. But, you know, eight albums in four years, I mean, that’s just unbelievable.

Ray Manzarek: That’s a lot of work, yeah.

Marc Allan: Yeah and,

Ray Manzarek: This day and age isn’t it? It’s strange, it’s taking so long to make albums, I’m shocked, aren’t you guys up there songwriting? Well, you know what it is, it’s too much touring. You can’t write when you’re on the road it’s virtually impossible. I don’t know, I think people tour too much, quite frankly.

Marc Allan: Yeah, were there long, I mean, obviously you weren’t touring all that much.

Ray Manzarek: No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, there were long periods when we didn’t tour, or we’d tour on a weekend, we’d go out and play a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, maybe a Monday, and then we’d come back home. So, nobody wanted to go on a 60-city tour and that’s totally insane. How the hell you do anything but tour, you can’t create. And the musical creation was very important. So we tried to strike a nice balance between creating music and playing it for the people.

Marc Allan: I think my favorite parts of the book when you’re, or when you’re talking about playing at The Whisky and there’s nobody there and you’re just rehearsing basically. And how you got it together. I mean, I guess I’m just more of a music, interested in the music than I–

Ray Manzarek: Do you play music?

Marc Allan: No, not that anyone would want to hear that’s for sure. But I just, because to me, the creative process is the most interesting thing.

Ray Manzarek: Well great man, I’m glad to hear that.

Marc Allan: Jim Morrison, is he in heaven or hell?

Ray Manzarek: Is there a heaven or hell?

Marc Allan: Well, I don’t know, I don’t believe that.

Ray Manzarek: That the question, You don’t ask the question of an old acid head. I’m a oneness man. Well, let me put it to you this way, Jim Morrison is in heaven because everybody, here’s the New Age religion. Here’s the religion of Ray Manzarek, everybody goes to heaven.

Marc Allan: No matter what you’ve done?

Ray Manzarek: There is no hell.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay.

Ray Manzarek: The hell, if you’ve done bad things, you’re in hell. If you would do something bad on earth, you’re in hell. Because the divine revelation of being one with the energy to finding the Christ within you, is so divinely, deliciously good that to new wrong puts you in a crazy mind, crazy state of mind, that is hell.

Marc Allan: So you’re talking about hell on earth?

Ray Manzarek: Hell on earth man, you got it.

Marc Allan: And retribution, are you a believer in retribution?

Ray Manzarek: Retribution, you’re giving yourself up, I mean, for all your sins, you’re paying the ultimate price for your own sins. You’re receiving the retribution right here on earth with the anguish, the anguish inside of you. You don’t need to be punished by an old scene to get even. In fact, what happens to you after you die is that you merge with the energy of the universe. It’s not so much a heaven state or a hell state. You’ll merge with the energy of the universe. The energy of the universe is God. You become God, God is you, me, all of us.

Marc Allan: Are you a participant and an organizer of the particular religion?

Ray Manzarek: Atenism is an ancient Egyptian religion that was last practiced in the 18th dynasty.

Marc Allan: Wow, how do you know about this?

Ray Manzarek: Sigmund Freud’s book, “Moses and Monotheism”. And lying on the beach in Venice, having this revelation, being under the influence of a certain psychedelic substance that was not illegal at the time and that has since been made illegal, I mean fascists,. Lying on the beach in Venice and feeling the energy of the sun and realizing that the energy of the sun is the purest form of God energy that we’re capable of understanding in this life that we lead. This fleshy, bodily life. And then reading about this guy in Egypt, a pharaoh Akhenaten, A-K-E-N, Aken, A-T-E-N, Akhenaten, or it could be A-H-K-E-N, yeah A-H-K-E-N-A-T-E-N. And reading about him. I mean, he had the exact same experience, and he’s writing about the energy of the sun, the sun disk, they called them, the Akhens, and I read about that in the Sigmund Freud’s book, “Moses and Monotheism”, and then a few other books. And, my God, this is exactly the same experience. I mean, human beings, what’s beautiful is that human beings are human beings, you know, 3000 years ago, or 1965, 66 on the beach in Venice, California, it’s all the same. And it’s going to be the same in the year 2000. So hopefully all of us can plug into that energy and be creative and make art, make love, make art, not war, not greed, not evil.

Marc Allan: Ah, okay, let’s see, is it, you know, thinking about it today, and thinking Jim Morrison’s now been dead as long as he was alive. Is that the kind of incredible to you now?

Ray Manzarek: Is that a fact?

Marc Allan: Yeah, it was 27 years ago?

Ray Manzarek: Yeah, poor guy, man. I sure wish he was still around. I’m telling ya. That’s a tragic loss that, but interestingly, he was 27, as was Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain. Let’s see, who else? Brian Jones, they were all 27. They didn’t make it past their 27th year. Yeah, a transitional period from youth to adulthood. They just couldn’t quite make it. And yeah, of course, I miss Jim.

Marc Allan: Oh, yeah, yeah, no I just, I meant–

Ray Manzarek: God he was a fun bloke.

Marc Allan: Yeah, you think you would have aged well?

Ray Manzarek: Well, you know what? He was certainly aging quickly. The only thing he could have done was to turn it around, you would have had to have turned it around because he was, face it he was drinking. He was overindulgent, he drank too much. And, he just overindulged himself and he was not in good shape when he left for Paris and things just didn’t work out in Paris for him.

Marc Allan: Now, because you know, you see what’s going on in the music business, now. Can you picture it, yourself and the rest of the band, in your fifties, going out on a reunion tour and playing sheds and going all over the country?

Ray Manzarek: No, we wouldn’t be going, I can’t imagine us doing that, but I’ll tell you what we might be doing. We might be working on a new album. We might be working on a film together. We might be working on a stage presentation together. We might be working on a Broadway show. We might be putting the “Celebration Of The Lizard” together, or we might be doing a touring show called “The Magic Theater” inside of small auditoriums and smaller venues like Hermann Hesse and “Steppenwolf“, The Magic Theater. We talked about that, a prepared theater. So we’d be doing things like that.

Marc Allan: You look at the way that the music business treats, what it calls heritage artists now, and I think in a way it’d probably be almost better. Not to be–

Ray Manzarek: I wouldn’t be surprised you know. But let’s not be pessimistic and think that. Let’s think that would think that things are gonna turn itself around. I mean, that’s what I’m hoping will happen in the, I mean the future’s right around the corner, 21st century, we’ll turn it all around.

Marc Allan: I don’t mean any disrespect by this. I just want to ask you, do you feel ever like you’re living in the shadow of a dead man?

Ray Manzarek: No, here’s how it goes. That’s my friend. That’s my friend, Jim Morrison. We went to the film school together at UCLA and we got the idea to put a rock and roll band together. And I was gonna play the music and he was gonna be the lead singer and man. I was gonna be the music man. And along came John and Robbie and joined us to make music. If you’ve got any brains at all, you have to realize that the lead singer gets all the attention, both good and bad. He gets all the attention, but he also gets busted. He gets all the shit, he gets all the crazy’s who come around, people with the drugs and the booze, “Come on, Jim, get drunk with me”. I mean, Jim of course was supposed to get all the attention to the fact that he had gotten all the attention. That’s right, exactly. That’s how it’s supposed to be. But I’ll be damned if all of that attention didn’t kill him too in the end.

Marc Allan: Yeah, but you look at other bands, I mean, that is a very refreshing perspective on things because you look at other bands and their other bands have just destroyed themselves because of that, because of the jealousy over the intention that one particular member gets, or if you’ve ever watched The Who. I mean, it was like, I mean, it was a musical fistfight. I mean, it was unbelievable.

Ray Manzarek: God, but they made such great music.

Marc Allan: They did, but you know, I mean, Townshend could not stand the idea that Daltrey got that attention, you know?

Ray Manzarek: Right, well it’s the lead singer, come on. But Pete probably thought like hey, I wrote the songs I put this whole damn thing together. And why is he getting all the attention? Because he’s the cute one, man, you got the big snout. Look at you, you look like a dork. I mean, you’re a genius and you’re a great guitar player and great songs, but you’re a dork, whereas Peter is, I mean, whereas Roger Daltrey has got those golden boy looks, of course. And in Morrison’s case, I mean, Morrison had the look. I knew that right off the bat, I was like, ah the girls are gonna love this guy. I don’t give a shit about that, man. We’re gonna make great music together, the music and the poetry, the words, and the music are gonna blend together and just be absolutely brilliant. So the fact that he got all the attention, however, John Densmore hate’s Jim, because Jim got all the girls. Poor John.

Marc Allan: Yeah, that’s made fairly clear in the book as well.

Ray Manzarek: I think he’s, I hope over it by now. I think writing this book helped him get over a lot of that anger at Jim Morrison. Why does he get all the girls? John, because he’s the handsome one, you’re not bad looking, but Jesus Christ, John, you’re not fucking Jim Morrison, come on.

Marc Allan: Another thing that I wish you had addressed a little more, you wrote a lot about playing, you know about how he became to play bass on the organ and all. How hard is that? I mean, how physically demanding was that?

Ray Manzarek: It’s not.

Marc Allan: Really?

Ray Manzarek: It’s not, no. I mean, if you can do it, it’s not. If you can’t do it, it’s impossible. It’s simple as that. It’s a very rudimentary and very fundamental kind of baseline that I was playing with my left hand and coming out of that “Boogie-Woogie” and “Chicago Blues”. And my left hand was, it had an independent movement of its own. So, to do it was, was not difficult at all. I mean, I’ve played “Walking Lines” on the piano with my left hand and then along comes the base. Whoa, man, you play “Walking Lines” on the base and it actually sounds like a base. So it really wasn’t difficult at all.

Marc Allan: Yeah, I mean, you wrote a lot about your problems with the movie and that was one of the things–

Ray Manzarek: Oh God, I hated that movie.

Marc Allan: Yeah, that was one of the things, I mean, one of the things that bothered me about the movie, was it didn’t have anything to do with the band.

Ray Manzarek: No it didn’t, not at all.

Marc Allan: And I’ve always thought that what you did was one of the, I mean, I don’t care how simple you say it was, it to me was one of the more amazing things that rock and roll ever did. So, I wish there had at least been a little bit of paying attention to the band and what the band did.

Ray Manzarek: Well again, there’s that charisma that gosh, darn charisma of Jim Morrison, that was just, absolutely overpowered Oliver Stone. I mean, let’s face it. Oliver Stone fell in love with Jim. It was definitely a sexual relationship going on. Fortunately, Jim wasn’t around. So, Oliver couldn’t make a fool of himself trying to actually have intercourse with Jim Morrison. You know, something of that nature. I mean, Oliver Stone was in love with Jim Morrison, physically, so.

Marc Allan: Could you have stopped that movie?

Ray Manzarek: No, no I couldn’t, because we had already signed our rights away to Bill Graham in an act of self, another act of self-immolation. I thought Oliver Stone would be good. I mean, I must say when we first got together and it was Oliver Stone who wants to make up “The Doors” movie, it seemed like a good idea. Nobody knew at the time that Oliver Stone was actually that crazy guy that then began to twist everything and twist everything, twist the sixties around, up until that time I think that, I think he was coming off of “Born on the Fourth of July”. So it was like “Platoon” and something else, and “Born on the Fourth of July” and Oliver Stone wants to make “The Doors”. Sounds great, let’s do it. Then I read the script. I thought, Oh my God, don’t make this movie. I told Oliver Stone, I told him over the telephone, he wanted to get together and go over the script. I said, the script is completely wrong. Don’t make this movie. If you want to make the right movie about The Doors, please call me. I’m at your disposal. I’m at your beck and call. I want us all to make the best movie about The Door’s and the sixties we possibly can. Please call me. I never heard again from Oliver Stone.

Marc Allan: I guess on the one plus side, didn’t Kyle Maclachlan look eerily like you?

Ray Manzarek: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Marc Allan: That was bizarre.

Ray Manzarek: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I have no complaints with the actor’s portrayal. That was fine. I mean Val Kilmer did a good job as Jim, I mean, that was all fine. It was just the director, the director and the writer. He was the director-writer and he was wrong.

Marc Allan: I mean, the band, it seemed like all the band did was scowl throughout the whole movie, so.

Ray Manzarek: We never, you’re right, exactly.

Marc Allan: And obviously there were plenty of good times.

Ray Manzarek: A lot of fun man. Potheads, a bunch of potheads in the sixties, are you kidding, we had the time of our lives, God almighty.

Marc Allan: Let me just ask you a couple quick things. Is it better to burn out than it is to rust?

Ray Manzarek: Is it better to burn out–

Marc Allan: Than it is to rust?

Ray Manzarek: Than to roast?

Marc Allan: No it’s rust,

Ray Manzarek: Oh to rest? R-E-S-T?

Marc Allan: No R-U-S-T.

Ray Manzarek: Is it better to burn out than to rust Life is life. You live life for five years, for 55 years for 105 years. It doesn’t matter. You’re going back to the same place you came from. It doesn’t matter what you do here.

Marc Allan: Really?

Ray Manzarek: You should have a joyous life while you’re on the planet, that’s all that matters. And obviously don’t hurt other people. That’s very simple, it’s not difficult.

Marc Allan: That sounds very simple. How do you know so much about Nico’s oral sex technique?

Ray Manzarek: I never experienced it, for God’s sake don’t tell my wife, the story, Jim didn’t elaborate on it, but he told me the story, and having had it done before. And then I understand exactly what he was talking about.

Marc Allan: Have you heard that David Crosby just wrote a song called “Morrison”, have you heard it?

Ray Manzarek: No, I haven’t.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay, then you can’t talk about it.

Ray Manzarek: Have you heard it?

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Ray Manzarek: How did the lyrics go?

Marc Allan: It’s a more of a darker Morrison. He said he, the time he spent him around Morrison, was very unhappy and he did not like Morrison, he thought Morrison was an obnoxious drunk, so.

Ray Manzarek: Gee, that’s odd coming from David ’cause he’s really an obnoxious guy too. I know David’s he really an obnoxious guy.

Marc Allan: Oh okay .

Ray Manzarek: He is, I’m sorry, Jesus Christ, what a jerk.

Marc Allan: I don’t know him, so.

Ray Manzarek: Okay, yes I know him. I don’t like the man.

Marc Allan: And finally, I wanted to ask you, did you have something to do with, with producing The Knack at the beginning?

Ray Manzarek: No, I was going to… Yeah, I was at some, I was at some club in LA, and the, well I guess, what was that in the late seventies, I guess. And you were there and I thought, gee, I wonder what an odd pairing and especially ’cause at the time then, I mean, I didn’t see what anybody saw in The Knack at the time. But I just remembered you being there and I wondered about it. 

 That was before their whole persona became developed. And before their strange little stick. They were actually a very good band and Steven Stills was there and a lot of people were very interested in The Knack at the time. And they’re all a bunch of good guys, Bruce Gary, and Doug Feiger and the other two guys. I mean, I knew Bruce Gary very well, the drummer, and Doug Fieger was a very good, down to earth guy. And then they became successful and became ridiculous. I was like Doug, what the fuck happened to you, man? You’re ridiculous. You’re not this guy. Stop putting on strange airs and this lame-assed teenybopper shit, you guys are much more intelligent than that, but they had some kind of a plan that they were going to do. And obviously it didn’t work.

Marc Allan: Well, I hope they saved the money from “My Sharona”.

Ray Manzarek: Well, of course, they didn’t.

Marc Allan: No right.

Ray Manzarek: They bought big things and did stuff up their noses. So the money’s all gone.

Marc Allan: That’s too bad. Anything else that you want to cover?

Ray Manzarek: I think that does it.

Marc Allan: Okay, well that’s great. I appreciate your time.

Ray Manzarek: My pleasure.

Marc Allan: And good luck with the book.

Ray Manzarek:  All right, well thanks very much.

Marc Allan: Take care,

Ray Manzarek: Okay Marc, talk to you later.