The Tapes Archive

Marc Allan: How’re you doing?

Les Claypool: I’m pretty good.

Marc Allan: Good. Let me start by asking you, Rush, is this a good match, Primus and Rush?

Les Claypool: It worked last year.

Marc Allan: So you found their fans pretty accepting?

Les Claypool: I found them more accepting than I had thought they would be. It actually went over very well far as our relationship with Rush. You know, we were huge fans as youngsters. Well, we still are. But to meet the guys was really cool. To be accepted by the Rush crowd, that was very pleasant, because being one of the people that used to go see those guys, faithfully every, year and stand in line to get tickets, I knew how scrutinizing a Rush audience could be. And there’s been many shows that I’ve been to when I was in high school, Rush concerts, where the opening act, wasn’t very well received.

Marc Allan: Do you recall who you saw?

Les Claypool: I don’t wanna-

Marc Allan: Okay, don’t wanna trash anybody.

Les Claypool: I don’t wanna trash anybody. There were definite times when people definitely would’ve preferred just seeing Rush.

Marc Allan: Do you think that Primus fans find it bizarre that this is the band that you guys like?

Les Claypool: I wouldn’t think so.

Marc Allan: No? I thought it was odd, but anyway. What made you wanna be a bass player?

Les Claypool: Well, at the time, everybody wanted to be a guitar player, so I figured it’d be easier to get a gig. And it only had four strings, so I figured it would be easier to learn. Plus, I always thought guitar sounded wimpy. Bass has got that feel to it, the vibration that gets the sperm count going.

Marc Allan: I wondered about that. I played bass when I was in high school, and I sucked at it. But basically, I ended up playing bass because it was kinda like being the last kid picked to play on the sports team. Everybody else played guitar or something else, “Well we need a bass player. “You be the bass player.”

Les Claypool: Well, it’s like Geddy said, he started playing bass because he was a guitar player and I guess he wasn’t as good as the other guitar players. They made him play bass. You know, it was guys like, in the early days, it was guys like Geddy Lee and Chris Squire that really got me going.

Marc Allan: Me, too. I always wanted to be able to play, and this how bad I was, I was not able, I wanted to play the walking bass line in “Yours Is No Disgrace.”

Les Claypool: Yeah?

Marc Allan: Just spent a while doing that and figuring. Well, all that stuff, I could not do anything.

Les Claypool: I mean, “Roundabout,” that was like the hardest bassline at the time that I can remember, as far as rock. And then I got into stuff like Larry Graham, Louis Johnson, Stanley Clarke and all these guys, and it pretty much changed my whole life.

Marc Allan: Did you study the instrument much? Did you take a lot of lessons? Because when I listen to you play, it seems to me like you’re so inventive. I thought, maybe, you didn’t take any kind of lessons or just have any formal training and therefore never felt bound by any do’s and don’ts of the instrument.

Les Claypool: No, I never took any lessons. I basically bought a bass and was in a band instantly, and I couldn’t play anything. I could play “Smoke On the Water” in the wrong key.

Marc Allan: Oh man, we lived that–

Les Claypool: Back then, bass players weren’t in such big demand. That, you know, the guy in the band bought a Mel Bay book, and the guy in the band taught me how to play his songs ’cause all they were was original tunes. I could play like, this guy’s song and that was it. And then people say “Hey, can you play a Hendrix tune or something?” I’ll be all . I just listened and watched a lot of people, that’s how I learned.

Marc Allan: Is that, in fact correct, that you just didn’t feel constrained by anything in particular? You just played what you felt?

Les Claypool: I’ve always been one to want to do things differently. It’s just the way I’ve always been. I immediately just tried doing things that nobody else was doing. Even from the beginning, even the way I first approached my bass.

Marc Allan: Can you talk about your technique? What do you do that makes it sound so different from other people?

Les Claypool: There are many things that I do that are not traditional, but there are a lot of players these days that are starting to come out that are influenced by the same people I was influenced by, that are doing similar things. Necessity is the mother of invention. Being in a band like Primus, where’s there’s only three guys and then, I’ve always worked with very textural guitarists. I’ve never really, with Primus, worked with guys that are very aggressive rhythmically, so I always felt I had to hold down a couple of parts, you know like a rhythm guitar part and a bass part. That’s where all the strumming and tapping and stuff came in. As far as like thumping and plucking, that’s all old-school, Larry Graham, Louis Johnson type stuff.

Marc Allan: So, it just might not be familiar to a rock audience, but funk players, would know exactly what you’re doing, then?

Les Claypool: In some areas. The thing is, I’ve never really limited myself to one particular player or even the bass. When I go see a band, generally the first thing I’m attracted to is the drummer. I play drums, as well, and I know I approach my instrument very percussively, and it’s probably because I very much listen to drummers. A good drummer, the way they will phrase something, to me, it’s very exciting. I tend to approach my bass more in that way. I don’t know, it’s nothing I can really put my finger on, just a lot of years under my belt and a lot of different music, I never… As a young guy, I was a rock and roll guy, but as soon as my horizons expanded, my playing got better and more well-rounded, and the more I kept my horizons open, the more well-rounded I got. I think if you approach an instrument or music with tunnel vision, or just with a few different influences, people are gonna be able to pin you down and say, “Hey, you sound like this” or “You sound like that.”

Marc Allan: And definitely nobody can do that to Primus, although it’s interesting to me, like I was listening to the latest disc and just going, “Man, this is like, I don’t know what this is, “this is just so different from anything I’ve heard.” Then I’m looking at your bio, and it started talking about some other people and I thought, King Crimson, yeah, this is probably more like King Crimson than I realized at the time. And then it started to make some sense for me. Did you listen to much King Crimson?

Les Claypool: Yeah, we, the three of us have, there are definite common grounds for the three of us that there are a lot of things that we all listen to that the others don’t listen to. We’re all very well-rounded as far as our listening taste. And we’re also very diverse amongst each other. There are a lot of things Herb will listen to that Larry and I wouldn’t necessarily listen to. You get into Larry’s car, you’re gonna listen to either Frank Zappa or the Grateful Dead, generally what he has in his tape player. So, I mean, there are times when we’ll be cruising along and something will sound like Floyd or it’ll sound like Sly Stone. It’s not that we’re sitting down, and deliberately going, “Okay, we have to be the odd, “the guys that sound different.” The more we get into this, the more comfortable we’re becoming in the studio, the more spontaneous it’s becoming. And then, that to me is when we’re starting to see the true reflections of what we have accumulated through the years. Whatever pops off, as opposed to putting a lot of thought into it.

Marc Allan: On “Pork Soda,” the credits only list five instruments, total. Is that really all there is?

Les Claypool: Should be like some banjo and mandolin.

Marc Allan: Let’s see, okay, drums, guitar, banjo, bass and mandolin.

Les Claypool: Yeah, that’s it.

Marc Allan: On “Wounded Knee,” it sounds like vibes. What is that?

Les Claypool: Actually, Herb plays, what’s it called, marimba.

Marc Allan: That’s a real unusual sound. Then there are parts where I think I hear different kinds of instruments. There are a couple of songs where I thought I heard violin or some modification of a violin.

Les Claypool: Well, it’s my upright bass, bowing it.

Marc Allan: That’s really incredible, I mean, you can get a lot of different sounds out of the instruments. I didn’t realize that they could vary as much as they do.

Les Claypool: Well, I have a few different basses. I have two different six-strings, one’s fretted, one’s fretless. I have my main four-string but I have a few different four-strings that I use. And then my upright basses. You can get pretty, quite an array of sounds, especially when you start playing arco, using a bow. And Larry’s always pulling tricks out of his hat, too. He’s Mr. Effects, stompbox collector. He’s got all these crazy, old, vintage stompboxes. He’s always hooking different things together to get different sounds. And then of course, Herb has the massive, huge volumic drum kit. So, I mean, in a sense, there are many parallels that can be drawn between us and Rush. In a lot of people’s minds, it’s a sensible pairing. There are obvious differences, as well. It seems to work really well together. Plus, those guys are just fun guys to be with.

Marc Allan: I don’t know, I mean, maybe they are, they just… You know, I like Rush and they’ve never, they always seem to be thinking, but they seem to be very intense and not very playful. I think of Primus as a pretty playful group, that’s why I thought the pairing was odd.

Les Claypool: Well, I mean, there’s the public eye and then there’s the everyday life.

Marc Allan: Right, they’re real human beings as well as the guys who make that music.

Les Claypool: They’re good guys. Alex, the guy’s a nut. We’ve just never chosen to be overly serious. I tend to make fun of people who take themselves too seriously. They definitely have a sense of humor. I mean, any guys who would have 40-foot inflatable rabbits come popping up on their stage and having them dance to Tom Sawyer, that’s that’s pretty good.

Marc Allan: Last time we saw you here, or maybe the only time, was Lollapalooza. How was that? Was that a good experience for the band?

Les Claypool: Yeah, Lollapalooza was a blast. I told Billy from Smashin’ Pumpkins, when they were talking about doing this upcoming Lollapalooza, I told him, I said to do it at all costs, because it was an amazingly fun thing to do. Touring has its ups and downs and it can be pretty boring out there at times, but there was never a dull moment on Lollapalooza, that’s for sure. You’re traveling around with a couple hundred people and you’re going, we basically went to Lollapalooza everyday. It was like being part of a circus or something. It was pretty amazing.

Marc Allan: Yeah, was that a good spot in the lineup, to be the band that closed the show?

Les Claypool: It worked well for us. We had all this crazy projection and such, so it wouldn’t have worked too well during the day. Can you hang on one sec?

Marc Allan: Sure. Anyway, I just have a few others and I’ll let you go. I asked about that spot on the lineup because I don’t know what it was like for the performers, but by the time you came on at about, I guess 9:30, 10:00, I noticed, sitting out in the audience, that I basically hated all of humanity. The last thing I wanted to see was anybody on stage. I just wanted the day to be over and I had no idea what it was like for the performers. It was a long and kind of exhausting day for people. So, that’s why I was curious about that.

Les Claypool: Yeah, well, when we entered into this thing, we figured that was gonna be the case and that there was gonna be a large portion of people that were going to leave. What we wanted to do was, do this production, and felt that the die-hards were gonna hang around and the people that didn’t want to, were gonna leave. We weren’t so much into Lollapalooza for the exposure, as much as we were in for the experience, and we wanted to do our show. We weren’t even planning on doing Lollapalooza, we were gonna go out and do our own tour with this production, and the Lollapalooza people were persistent and offered us this slot, so, away we went.

Marc Allan: Two songs on “Pork Soda” I want to ask you about. One of them is the “Pressman,” can you tell me about that, what inspired you to write that?

Les Claypool: That’s actually a pretty old song, lyrically. To me, I just had this image of this fellow who lives this fairly obscure life that just has this realization of power of the pen, so to speak. It’s not meant to be derogatory, in any way, but people thought it was. It was just more of a interesting visual I had in my head and I wanted to express it.

Marc Allan: That song hits me in different ways when I listen to it. Sometimes, I think, yeah, he’s definitely trashing people, the news people and then sometimes I think, well, no, this is kind of flattering.

Les Claypool: It’s not meant to be–

Marc Allan: Either way.

Les Claypool: I’m not meaning to be malicious or anything, at all. If anything, I just didn’t have the visualization of this character, almost a Meet John Doe type thing. Hence, this smoky air and egg sandwiches, menthol cigarettes. It’s more of a, to me there’s sort of a romanticism to that visual, that may or may not even exist anymore. To me, it has more of an old Hollywood vibe to it, I keep wanting to use the word visual, just because that’s what pops in my head when I think of those lyrics.

Marc Allan: Like the front page or something like that?

Les Claypool: Yeah, or his girl Friday.

Marc Allan: His girl Friday, yeah.

Les Claypool: Or meet John Doe.

Marc Allan: And then, DMV, which is such a…

Les Claypool: That is definitely derogatory.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Les Claypool: There’s no if, ands… I would have even gotten worse.

Marc Allan: Was that inspired by a particularly trip to the DMV?

Les Claypool: Is there ever a good trip to the DMV?

Marc Allan: It depends on where you live, I think.

Les Claypool: Oh, man, not where I live.

Marc Allan: If you live here, it’s entirely possible to go into the DMV and be the only person.

Les Claypool: Not…

Marc Allan: But, I grew up in New York.

Les Claypool: You’re in heaven, then. Because if you’re in the Bay Area, oh, man. It’s unbelievably bad.

Marc Allan: Do you think there’s a tendency among the current wave of rock bands to be particularly negative? Like, I listen to Primus and I think, this band’s having a lot of fun. I don’t hear that in a lot of other music that’s around today.

Les Claypool: You know, I never really thought about it. It always seems like there’s been doom-and-gloomers. I can’t think of a time when there hasn’t been songs about death or drugs or whatever. I didn’t realize there was a glut of them.

Marc Allan: It doesn’t feel uncomfortable or like a glut, but it just seems like most of the people who’ve come along are taking up where, I guess where the Yeses and King Crimsons and Rolling Stones and whatever have left off, tend to be more down and more angry.

Les Claypool: Yeah, I don’t know if there are so many that are taking up where the Yeses and the King Crimsons took off. That might be something that there’ll be a resurgence of, the whole progressive rock thing. I haven’t really seen a lot of it yet. It seems like we’re more, there’s a lot a Bad Companies out there.

Marc Allan: Led Zeppelin, too.

Les Claypool: Yeah, I don’t know. You got guys like Nirvana, who say their roots have always been Punk. And Punk is rebellion and angst, goes hand-in-hand I would imagine. I’ve always been a, I don’t want to sit here and say, “I’m a humorous fellow.” But, I’ve always, I like to take things with a grain of salt, or grain of sugar, I would imagine.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Les Claypool: That’s just the way I’ve always been, the way my family’s always been. Humor is a very strong element and that’s a good defense mechanism.

Marc Allan: Two other questions. Do they have Best Buy stores where you are, or Best Buy commercials?

Les Claypool: I don’t think so.

Marc Allan: No? Okay.

Les Claypool: Is that like Kmart or something?

Marc Allan: It’s sort of like a giant electronics store that also sells CDs and things like that. Anyway, they’ve, they have these commercials that they run where, basically, it’s like two sort of clean, yuppie looking people in a variety settings. Either playing pool or shooting hoops or something like that. And they’ll sit there and talk about the music that they like, music that they buy, and Primus is one that comes up in one of the commercials and I wondered if you had ever seen that and thought anything of it.

Les Claypool: Never saw that.

Marc Allan: Yeah, it’s just kind of–

Les Claypool: Surprises the hell out of me.

Marc Allan: Yeah, you would think this is one of these places that deep discounts everything, so you’d think they’d be all after the Janet Jackson fans and all that. You know, they talk about like, these people are playing basketball with each other and talking about how they go out and they buy Primus and Pavement and things like that. Never seen it? Never mind.

Les Claypool: No, that’s surprising, though.

Marc Allan: And finally, for another story I’m working on, I’m asking everybody I interview if rock music, if popular music, were like the stock market and you could invest in some up-and-coming young band who people generally don’t know about right now, who do you like, who have you heard, that you think we’ll be hearing about in the future?

Les Claypool: Well, the thing is, I mean I am investing in up-and-coming bands because I just started a record company, but like Primus, I mean, if I was an investor and I wanted to make money, I wouldn’t invest in anything that I like. I would have never invested in Primus if you wanted to make money. If it was purely on moral or personal taste, then I would invest in guys that I have, like Charlie Hunter Trio and Mirv and a group, Eskimo and Polkacide and these bands we’ve been working with on my label.

Marc Allan: Why do you invest in those groups?

Les Claypool: I love their music. They’re good people, they’re quality players and nobody else is gonna do it. The only way that pop world is gonna change is to have the outer fringe bubbling away. I’m not doing anything new, there’ve been indie labels forever. Look at all the sub pop bands that are huge now, that are influencing the mainstream. And I don’t expect to do any of that, but these bands influence other bands who may be more mainstream but a little obscure because they’ve been listening to some of these really obscure groups. It’s just like a lot of the groups that I’ve listened to throughout the years that are pretty obscure, but have never become as big as us, yet they’ve been a huge influence on us.

Marc Allan: So, what’s your label called?

Les Claypool: It’s called Prawn Song. Very similar to the Swan Song label.

Marc Allan: I hope it runs better. I hope you don’t harass musicians the way Led Zeppelin did.

Les Claypool: Well, hopefully, they won’t harass me.

Marc Allan: Well, you grew up in San Francisco area?

Les Claypool: Yeah.

Marc Allan: Yeah, so you probably know about or must know or know of little Charlie and the, or was it … What the hell were they called? Something and the Goosebumps. They did that Stairway to Gilligan’s Island thing.

Les Claypool: Oh, yeah.

Marc Allan: Yeah, they were from there, right? Led Zeppelin had their records pulled out of the stores because of the copyright problems.

Les Claypool: Really?

Marc Allan: Oh, yeah, you don’t know about this?

Les Claypool: I knew about the song and I just assumed it was a Dr. Demento type thing.

Marc Allan: Yeah, no, it was a San Francisco band, I think, and I can’t, why I can’t remember… Little Roger and the Goosebumps, that’s what it was called.

Les Claypool: Well, we’ll see if ol’ Jimmy Page comes after me for the Prawn Song thing.

Marc Allan: And the bands that you mentioned, that are on your label, what- Just tell me a couple of them, what do they sound like?

Les Claypool: Well, Charlie Hunter Trio is straight up jazz. It’s a three-piece, obviously, if it’s a trio. And Charlie, he was the guitarist for Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy. He plays that eight string guitar and he plays all the bass parts and the guitar parts. It’s him, a sax player and a drummer. It’s phenomenal, he’s one of the most amazing players, well his whole band is amazing. But he’s one of the most amazing, I hate to say guitar players because he’s one of those most amazing stringed instrument players to come out in a long time. I mean, he will blow anybody’s mind. It’s unreal, what he does. And then Mirv is with the guitars for a band called The Limbomaniacs. He’s one of the best local guitarists around here. He’s a phenomenal player. I just said, “Hey, let’s make a record.” He came over to my house, we made this thing in my basement, basically. It started out as a two-week project that turned into four months. And it’s this concept record about a post-apocalyptic nightclub in the future where kids shave their facial features off with cheese graters and sandpaper. So, it’s pretty wild. “Alphabet Soup,” we’re going to put that out, it’s like jazz, hip-hop thing. Polkacide is straight up polka. Here, hang on, hang on one second.

Marc Allan: All right.

Marc Allan: Hello?

Les Claypool: Yeah, go ahead.

Marc Allan: Just spell Merv, is it Merv?

Les Claypool: Mirv.

Marc Allan: Okay.

Les Claypool: He’s gettin’ ready to tour with Fishbone, actually.

Marc Allan: Okay, and Polka, Polkacide?

Les Claypool: Polkacide.

Marc Allan: Polka with C-I-D-E at the end of it?

Les Claypool: I would imagine.

Marc Allan: Okay.

Les Claypool: They’re amazing, they got the accordion, the tuba player and the ocarina, guys in lederhosen, they’re amazing.

Marc Allan: Okay.

Les Claypool: And then a band called Eskimo, which is this obscure, sort of Zappa/Beefheart type thing.

Marc Allan: Do you envision Primus eventually being on this label?

Les Claypool: I don’t think Interscope would let us.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Les Claypool: I just released a record, well it’s coming out April 5th, Sausage is the name of the group and it’s myself and two of the original members of Primus. And we’re basically doing old Primus songs from 10 years ago. It’s a Prawn Song/Interscope release. Like Prawn Song production, Interscope release. So, Interscope has first dibs on anything that I’m heavily involved in.

Marc Allan: For the next like 30, 40 years, something like that?

Les Claypool: For however long… We have, I love those people, they’re great people. They’re our friends and they treat us well. So, as long as that relationship stays like that, I’m sure we’ll work together for a long time. I have no qualms.

Marc Allan: I appreciate all your time. Is there anything else you want me to tell people about the band or the show or anything we haven’t talked about?

Les Claypool: No. How’s the weather back there, right now? Sunny days coming–

Marc Allan: Yeah, it’s been pretty consistent. Let’s see, you’re here on the 26th, by then it should be fairly, I would guess it’d probably be in the high 50s, low 60s.

Les Claypool: I’m just tryin’ to get a perspective, so I’ll know whether–

Marc Allan: What clothes.

Les Claypool: I’m gonna be cooped up in my hotel or am I actually gonna be able to go out and get some fresh air.

Marc Allan: Well, I appreciate all your time and we’ll see you in about a week and a half, I guess.

Les Claypool: All righty.

Marc Allan: All right.

Les Claypool: Thanks, bye bye.

Marc Allan: Take care.