John Prine 1997
A never published interview with John Prine
In the interview Prine talks about:
- His record label, “Oh Boy”
- Why his songs have “simple messages”
- How at the time of the interview he was in such a good place that he’ll “probably be writing all zippity-doo-da songs”
- John Mellencamp and other Indiana connections
- His yet-to-be-made duet album
- Touring smaller venues
- And more…
In this episode, we have the great singer-songwriter, John Prine. At the time of this interview in 1997, Prine was 50 years old and was out on tour with Los Lobos. In the interview, Prine talks about his record label, Oh Boy, his Indiana connections, touring, and his yet-to-be-made duet album.
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John Prine interview transcription:
Marc Allan: How are you doing?
John Prine: Pretty good, sorry I’m late. We’re kinda on the move here, I’m in Edmonton Alberta Airport.
Marc Allan: Yeah, yeah, well–
John Prine: I couldn’t find a telephone. I’ve been walking around for about 20 minutes looking for a phone.
Marc Allan: Yeah, well, not a problem but I was just sitting here thinking, I didn’t think this interview was ever gonna happen and now I know it’s not.
John Prine: Oh really?
Marc Allan: And then you call, yeah. And no, it’s just that, not only don’t I see many interviews with you. I can’t even remember ever being offered an interview with you so I was real excited when they said that you were willing to talk. Am I right that you don’t do interviews very often?
John Prine: Yeah, well, I just don’t do ’em unless we got, like a new record out or something. You know?
Marc Allan: Yeah.
John Prine: ‘Cause I just hardly ever do ’em ’cause I just don’t see much sense in ’em unless. I guess they always work out good but I guess, I can’t really see the reason why ’til I see the end thing.
Marc Allan: Okay, well, I’ll try not to make it too miserable for you.
John Prine: That’s all right.
Marc Allan: These days, as much as I hear people raving about your music as always, people are always talking about you as a businessman and Oh Boy and how great this is. And is Oh Boy a panacea? I mean, is it the perfect thing for you?
John Prine: As opposed to working for a major label it is. I never really had any of the horror stories that the, like the bands and other individual artists have had on a major label. It’s not that I had anything like that. That’s not why I started Oh Boy. I just come from a working class background. And I couldn’t see no reason to work for Warner Brothers. What could they do for me? You know?
Marc Allan: Right.
John Prine: It’s like nothing. They could spend my money before I make it. I just didn’t see any sense in it. It didn’t make sense to me. All you had to do is go through it twice. I went through it at Atlantic and I went through it at Asylum for three records. And I knew everybody’s, I knew what all the promo men looked like. I knew their faces. They just changed suits and change labels. And there’s always a guy that’s hanging out with you, telling you he’s gonna really tell ’em what your stuff is about at the label. And there’s another guy that obviously doesn’t know ya but has a guy working for him, and the only thing he does is tell him who you are. And I just couldn’t go through it again, not really. I didn’t want it to affect me making music and I still thought I oughta have a way to get my records out, even though the records weren’t the main thing with me. Think touring was. I made more friends by going around and playing in a club or something, or concert hall. And the records just kinda, they’re self-supportive. They end up paying for themselves and they sell slow and sure like jazz records do.
Marc Allan: Yeah but you know everybody says, when they’re talking about you business-wise, they say, “Well, you know he gets to keep five, six bucks a record compared to the average artist on a major label who might get a dollar.”
John Prine: Yeah, that’s true but somehow it still doesn’t make its way to the bank. We’re doing good. Right now, in particular, is not a good time for the independent labels. A lot of ’em are falling or getting ready to because all kinds of things. Mainly the distributors are getting bought up. And you’re doing good if you’re supporting yourself with an independent label, Right now, you’re doing excellent. And I’m sure there’ll be better days and everything but we’re doing all right. We’re staying above water and everything’s working. We did spend more money on these last couple records and they sold more, so we were able to actually get played on radio and stuff.
Marc Allan: What are you typically selling now?
John Prine: Actually Lost Dogs did, Lost Dogs did around 350. And The Missing Years was around 420. Now the live record that’s out right now is selling slow but we can’t really tell with a record like that ’til it’s been out for a year.
Marc Allan: Then the bottom line on this sounds great. You get to keep more of your money. You get your artistic control and you don’t have to answer to the major labels.
John Prine: That’s true.
Marc Allan: And are there downsides to this?
John Prine: And on top of it, all the stuff on the road, it took a while to catch up. But because of the excitement and the selling the records, this has been a great year on the road. All the places have gotten better, the dressing rooms get prettier and the money has just like doubled. And that’s all, I’m sure, accumulative thing of what we’ve been doing over the last five years with the two records and the constant touring and everything. Tell you the truth, Marc, things couldn’t be better.
Marc Allan: Good.
John Prine: I’m having a great time. I got a great home life now and I’m enjoying the shows. And everything’s just fine.
Marc Allan: Great, I’m glad–
John Prine: I’m gettin’ ready to do, we haven’t really announced it yet because we haven’t got all the participants from. I’m writing for my next record and then meanwhile, I wanna do a duets record of me and all girls. And doing cheatin’ songs.
Marc Allan: Wow.
John Prine: And we’re getting ready to start on that as early as next month. I just haven’t got everyone’s yays or nays from the list of girls that are gonna do it. ‘Cause record companies are sometimes a little touchy about duets. But that’s kinda what I’m working on now and other than that, I’m gonna start Christmas shopping soon.
Marc Allan: Wow, this is great. I’m really glad to hear–
John Prine: Things are going really good ’cause I just spent six weeks with my family in Ireland. We had a great time, my wife’s from there and saw all the relatives. Showed off the babies all over the place.
Marc Allan: You’ve got a son who’s less than two-
John Prine: One and a half and two and a half.
Marc Allan: Oh man, wow, okay.
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: One other question about the label and that is why do you think more people haven’t done what you’ve done? And would you advice them to do it?
John Prine: Yeah, I would. I tell ya, we seemed to do it at the perfect time. It was just, we just did this thing in about the mid 80s, is when we started Oh Boy. Reason I say it was the perfect time then is ’cause things are different now. It’s even harder. Now what I’d tell people to do if I was gonna give ’em any advice at all is, are you familiar with Dead Reckoning?
Marc Allan: Yes, sure.
John Prine: Well, I think it’s good to, right now I think things are so tough that people need to gang together in order to start something. And it also, it’s good for the music it’s good for everything. Put four or five artists together under an umbrella and go into war that way, you know>?
Marc Allan: Yeah, actually, this is your experience. This has come up with conversations that I’ve had with John Mellencamp. And I’ve asked him, “Why don’t you do what John Prine does?” And I think it’s just, he looks at it and goes , “Too much work.”
John Prine: Not really. And it’s a lot more satisfying, even for the people that do the actual day-to-day work, which is Al and Dan Einstein. And you make a little move in an independent thing, and it’s a big thing. It’s very satisfying to everybody. You know what your odds are and we’ve had a whole lot of help with Oh Boy, particularly from the media. Everybody was really behind us 100% right from the get-go when I decided to go independent.
Marc Allan: You guys got a lot of Indiana connections.
John Prine: You know, I sure do. I got a guy with me right now from Bloomington, Jason Wilber. And he came via David Steele, got Jason when David went with Steve Earl. And I got both of ’em from Larry Crane.
Marc Allan: Right.
John Prine: So I got some Indiana connections.
Marc Allan: Yeah.
John Prine: And then John Mellencamp, I use to go up there around the mid-80s. I think it was just before I started Oh Boy, or maybe I just started it, and I’d go up there so John and I could write something and just hang out. And he introduced me to a lot of people around there.
Marc Allan: And Larry’s not with you now, right? Is that, Larry Crane?
John Prine: No, Larry, matter of fact, Larry’s taking a, he’s kinda abstained from the music business for about a year. He’s out with a race car driver.
Marc Allan: Oh really?
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: Oh man, didn’t know that. Who is it?
John Prine: We see him at the show though and if I do see him, I’ll see if I can get him and Ed to come up and play something with us.
Marc Allan: Yeah and you had the role in the Mellencamp movie too, right? You wrote the song–
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: and stuff, so yeah, it’s just weird, your Indiana connection all over the place. I was reading up some of the things in your press kit which are kinda interesting. And one of the things you were saying in there was that a guy at the post office said, “Don’t take your retirement pay ’cause you’ll be back.” – And I wondered, did you take your retirement pay?
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: You did.
John Prine: You don’t understand, I says, “If this doesn’t work out, I ain’t comin’ back here.” ‘Cause when he asked me what I was gonna do, like why I was leaving. And I said, “Well, I’m gonna play the guitar “and sing for a living.” he looked at me like, you might as well sprout wings. He said, “Well, man, don’t take your retirement pay.” I said, “Why?” He says, “You’ll be back.” I says, “No, you don’t understand.” I said, “I ain’t comin’ back here.”
Marc Allan: Did you ever see that guy again?
John Prine: No, I imagine he’s back there next to the parcel post.
Marc Allan: Yeah, he’s probably saying, “That John Prine, “he’ll be back.” Has your career gone as you expected?
John Prine: I guess it did. I never had much direction with it. All I ever wanted to do was work things around to pretty much where they’re at today. Like going out and really enjoying being there and enjoying doing the show and enjoying the crowd. And having a personal life that’s equal that. That and no bills, man, I don’t think what else I could have. I mean, the cars all look like shit so I don’t wanna buy a car. I mean, what else do I need?
Marc Allan: And I liked what you said in the press kit about people, people have the mistaken impression that you’re angry because you never became a huge star.
John Prine: I’ll tell you, I really like playing to about no more than four or five thousand, and less. Played little halls that only hold 800 and 900 and they’re beautiful. They’re places that are made for music. You get bigger than that, you’re playing in sports centers. They’re designed for the acoustics of a basketball instead of a guitar. I don’t know, I guess it’s a lot of money and everything but it takes a lot of money to put on a show, to keep the guys sitting up in the balcony satisfied. Hopefully, I’d like to stay right about round where the size places I’m playing.
Marc Allan: Yeah, you’re playing a 4,000-seater here this time. Is that, that’s comfortable for you?
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: Yeah, yeah. You really seem to have retained your working class roots and attitude and stuff. How did you do that?
John Prine: Well, I don’t know, I just never could buy into the rest of the stuff.
Marc Allan: Was it ever tempting?
John Prine: Not really, no. No. Hang on one sec.
Marc Allan: Sure, go ahead.
John Prine: I gotta get my ticket here.
Marc Allan: Okay, so do we have like two, three more minutes?
Airline Employee: You have to pay to get out of here.
John Prine: Get out of here?
Airline Employee: Yeah, but now you don’t have to with the .
John Prine: Okay.
Airline Employee: Gate 26.
John Prine: All right, thanks. Sorry.
Marc Allan: Not a problem. I was listening to the live album which I think sounds really good and just realizing that a lot of your songs just have really simple messages that speak to people. That get right to the heart of people’s lives. I don’t know if you make a conscious effort to write that way or is that just what comes out?
John Prine: A lot of times, if the song seems to be saying anything it’s, usually springs out of me trying to explain something to myself and I guess I must like things in fairly simple terms. So however long it takes me to break it down to that. Some of the stuff, also the subject matter is not something you wanna make a big flowery speech about. You wanna kinda cut to the heart of the matter and get it over with. And also, my third answer to that question is I don’t know. I don’t know any more about writing today than I did when I picked up a pencil like 25 years ago. It’s still, when I’m finishing, like writing everything I got on a shelf right at the time, no idea how to do it. Something that just comes and goes.
Marc Allan: But it must come naturally, right?
John Prine: Yeah, it’s an interesting way to live your life. You just walk around and think about stuff and then stuff that amuses ya, or interests ya, or it just kinda gets a hold of ya and you go for it. Maybe it comes out in the form of a song and then when you sing it to people and they react the way you did when you first got this emotion. That’s an amazing, it’s an amazing process.
Marc Allan: Since you’re really happy and things are going really well right now, is it a good time for song writing?
John Prine: I’ll probably be writing all zippity doo da songs now. I don’t know. It might be time to take I and me out of the songs for a little bit, ’cause I’m much too happy for a suffering song writer. So I’ll probably be writing in a different person.
Marc Allan: When you’re here, are you gonna be playing any new songs?
John Prine: Yeah, I call it “The Guy Next Door”, it’s like a series. That poor guy next door.
Marc Allan: Do you have new songs that you’re gonna be playing this time?
John Prine: No, I’m just working on stuff right now. Kinda pretty crazy stuff. Usually I wait until I can figure out a reason for writing this stuff and then I’ll finish it and present it.
Marc Allan: Yeah, you have an electric band with you right? You’re gonna play some electric, some acoustic?
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: Yeah, okay.
John Prine: We do a couple of hours and we cover all the years pretty good.
Marc Allan: And the duets album, can you say who some of the people you’re gonna be singing with are?
John Prine: That’s why I kind of feel a little premature telling you about it. I can’t really say the people. Only person I can say is Iris Dement ’cause we’ve already set a date. With the other people, they have to talk to their record companies and find out if it’s possible and everything. So I got a pretty big list too ’cause I figure if somebody can’t do it for any reason, we’ll just keep on moving. But I like singing boy-girl things and some of ’em will be cheatin’ songs and some of ’em will just be love songs, ’cause you can’t have cheatin’ without love. But I always liked interaction in the songs. Like where the girl sings something and then the boy sings something, then they sing together. So I’ve been sitting on this for years and years and I figured, I might as well do it now. If I don’t do it now, I ain’t gonna do it.
Marc Allan: Is it new material or classic stuff?
John Prine: No, it’s old classics, like George Jones and Tammy Wynette stuff, and Loretta Lynn and Conway Twitty stuff.
Marc Allan: Ah, okay.
John Prine: Yeah.
Marc Allan: Is it all country?
John Prine: Most of it is. I might pick one, I got an idea to pick one Broadway show tune and just do a big production on it.
Marc Allan: Wow, any idea what that song might be?
John Prine: Nope, I’m just trying to see, I’m working on all this as we speak. Ya know?
Marc Allan: Okay.
John Prine: Me and the producer and precious few other people know about it. But it is getting underway within a month so we’ll be, I’ll have some more information in probably a couple weeks, once I get some more people committed to it.
Marc Allan: Another Indiana connection that I don’t know if you’re aware of, there’s a four-woman acapella group in Bloomington called Vida. And they just recorded a version of “The Angel from Montgomery‘ on their new album.
John Prine: Oh really?
Marc Allan: Yeah, which I hoped you’d get to hear it. I mean, it is just stunning. I didn’t think–
John Prine: I’ll have to ask Jason about that, he’s from Bloomington.
Marc Allan: Yeah, I don’t know, I mean the song’s already been done great a couple of times but this is just an unbelievable version of it, I think.
John Prine: I’ll get ahold of one. They’re called Vida?
Marc Allan: Vida, V-I-D-A.
John Prine: Okay.
Marc Allan: Yeah and let me see, just one or two other things I could. One is for another story I’m working on. I’ve been asking everybody I interview, if you became the overlord of pop music what would be the first thing you would change?
John Prine: Well, let’s see, first thing I’d change. First thing I would change. I’m trying to make it a positive thing. Oh man, I’d give everybody the day off. There’s much too music out there, quit making music right now. Take the day off.
Marc Allan: Boy, that’s true, isn’t it?
John Prine: See ya on the golf course.
Marc Allan: And you’re playing here with Los Lobos, is that a good, you like that idea?
John Prine: Oh yeah, that’s gonna be great. I’ve always loved Los Lobos. They didn’t have to tell me too much more about gig when they said that they Los Lobos and us were gonna play together.
Marc Allan: Yeah, this is like the one show I’ve been looking forward to all summer so.
John Prine: Great, great.
Marc Allan: Anything else going on with you that you want me to mention?
John Prine: Nothing I can really think of and I kinda gotta start getting moving ’cause I gotta go through immigration and everything.
Marc Allan: Oh my goodness, okay. Well go ahead and thank you and I guess I’ll see you Saturday.
John Prine:Okay.
Marc Allan: Thanks very much.
John Prine: Thanks, Marc.
Marc Allan: Take care, bye bye.