The Tapes Archive

Steve Harris: Seeing your concert last night, I was amazed at how you can go through 40 songs. However, for the uninitiated fan, it might be kind of hard to differentiate some of them from the other ones. But the amazing thing is you’ve kind of maintained this one style all these years without compromise.

Joey Ramone: Yeah, well, every band tries to achieve a distinguished trademark sound, but few accomplish it. That’s the ultimate goal, is to have a sound that’s your own sound. Whether it be the Beatles or Little Richard or Elvis Presley or Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin, or The Ramones, that’s the ultimate thing, or The Who. Most bands sort of emulate other people’s… If you think about how many bands have been influenced by The Who, say, or the Stones. But in doing so, it’s something that’s just there. It’s a chemical thing. It’s not like you can’t say, oh, I wanna try and create a sound for myself. It just happens that way. But sure, you can say, I wanna write a song like this. But as far as creating a sound, your own distinctive sound, it’s just something that happens.

Steve Harris: But isn’t everybody more or less kind of a hybrid though?

Joey Ramone: Most bands really lack originality for the most part and they’re totally cliche and pretentious. If you listen to radio nowadays, it’s sickening for the most part. And of the bands nowadays who have anything really distinctive or original of their own, I think it’s been this band, The Ramones, who started 15 years ago and everybody has taken a piece of, basically, our fundamental sound as their basis, you know what I mean, whether it be heavy metal or the new resurgence of metal or bands like the Sex Pistols or Metallica or Anthrax or whoever, Poison, the Pretenders, whoever. Everybody took our sound and used it as their basis, almost like an artist for the first step on a canvas putting down that basic layer. It’s exciting and that’s great. Rock and roll was always meant… It’s the spontaneous reaction. You don’t go to Julliard for 20 years to learn how to play rock and roll music. Elvis Presley picked up a guitar or Buddy Holly, or whoever it be or Johnny Ramone, you know what I mean? That’s what he did with it. So I’m losing track of the original question here, but I know that the little bit of grasp I have on this question of…. current day… The last band that really created something has been The Ramones. I guess the most exciting period since, say, ’64, ’65 was the period of ’76, ’77. In lot of ways, it reminded me of that period when all these bands came out and they were all great, doing exciting things and new experimentation kinda situations, with the English Invasion. There was an English Invasion, but in America, there was a lot of exciting things going on here as well. It was Phil Spector and the Beach Boys and all the American groups. There was that psychedelic period with the Doors and the Stooges and the Seeds. There’s so much. The ’60s was… The ’50s was the infancy and the ’60s was sort of the experimental kinda ’cause rock and roll was new. It was in its infant stages. By ’69, rock and roll was getting lost. It’s alluded and lost and mixed in and all kinds and fused with all kinds. I think a lot of that had to do with LSD. It just lost its purity and simplicity and its freshness and its excitement, what it had in the late ’50s or early ’60s or the mid ’60s, you know what I mean? It was becoming a hodgepodge of a mess of things and what The Ramones did was sort of take it apart and reassemble it and it’s almost like there’d been a clog in the toilet. It was like we sorta Roto-Rootered it out and let the fresh air come back. We put the fun and excitement back in and the spirit and the emotion and the raw energy, raw emotion. I liked Pink Floyd when they first came out, but groups like Yes and Pink Floyd and all these groups, an album would become six tracks on an album instead of 12 or 14. It was total mess of mediocrity and contentious cliche and all that crap, you know what I mean? People lost sight.

Steve Harris: You brought it back?

Joey Ramone: Yeah.

Steve Harris: You mentioned the Talking Heads about how they kind of formed the band about the same time you guys did, about a year or two later.

Joey Ramone: Yeah, they came out later and we always liked them. We sort of took them on a wing in a sense, and we did that with good portion of the bands that we liked. At one point, it was almost like we were springboard to success. People would think, oh, you play with The Ramones… ‘Cause it was happening that way. Everyone that supported us would take off. And I admire David Byrne a lot. I really think he’s a talented guy. Talking Heads were doing something different too. Yeah, it was simple and it was more arty or something like that, you know what I mean?

Steve Harris: And he talks about them as having evolved by taking on different styles and whatnot How does that compare to your thing?

Joey Ramone: We’ve been influenced by millions and millions of influences, but what we did was, the way I see it, it’s like absorbed and stored in your head. The output is our own distinct brand of music. The idea is not to let it be known what your influences were. It’s just to put out something that is you and doesn’t sound like somebody else.

Steve Harris: I also remember you mentioned the Stones there as a band of seeming success, you made it sound. But when you think about it, the Stones also kind of went through various periods.

Joey Ramone: There are bands that have one or two influences and they stay on that. Not to say that they’re bad. Bands like, say, The Dolls or something, they were very Stones-influenced and it was very obvious that they were.

Steve Harris: Yeah, that’s funny ’cause when people talking about The Ramones, at least here in Japan, they often mentioned the Dolls as well. And Johnny Thunders tends to do pretty good over here, not as good as you guys have done this time.

Joey Ramone: Well, the Dolls are one of my favorite bands.

Steve Harris: Is that right? What did they have? What made them so special?

Steve Harris: Well, they were great. Great songs. They looked great. Johnny Thunders is great. If you’ve ever seen them or are any familiar with their albums, yeah, they were really exciting, clever. David was a witty Yank, clever guy, and they were fun. They were like an event.

Steve Harris: Why does a guy like David Johansen become Buster Poindexter and go through all this?

Joey Ramone: Well, because when he went solo, it wasn’t happening for him as a solo artist. And I admire the guy to take on another whole different personality, almost like this kind of schizophrenic other side. I think it’s really admirable what he’s done, how he took on this whole different identity, but he’s the type who can pull that off ’cause he’s a real ham. He’s sort of like a party-meister type.

Steve Harris: You’re not that way at all though?

Joey Ramone: What do you mean? I don’t want to be Buster Poindexter, no.

Steve Harris: You’re not a real ham?

Joey Ramone: Well, I mean, I’m not a…. I’m different than him, but he’s okay. Ham, what do you mean by that? I dunno, I don’t understand that question.

Steve Harris: In his case, obviously-

Joey Ramone: I’m gonna say I’m gonna to make it when I go solo. I’m gonna make it on my own account. I don’t have to change my personality to make it. I used to wear women’s clothes, this, that, and there was this kind of mystique mysteriousness about.

Steve Harris: Going back that ’76, ’77 period, that’s when they started using.. Well, the term punk became, I guess, sort of a household term from that time on. Did you guys consider yourself a punk band?

Joey Ramone: Well, we always considered ourselves a rock and roll band. We were termed punk by the press, but nowadays everything is considered rock and roll music. Pia Zadora is rock and roll, so punk is fine. The thing to do is being a rock and roll band. All the football players and baseball players want to be rock and roll stars. Everybody wants to be a rock and roll star. So, yeah, I don’t mind it at all. In a sense, we’re a punk band in a sense, but then a lot of people, they sort of see punk in sort of a negative sense when all it really means is being a rebel and rock and roll was always rebellious until the ’80s or the late ’70s. Now moms and dad and the kids all sit around the living room listening to Michael Jackson records or something. No, he’s not rock and roll. The edge is sort of gone for the most part. What it was really about doesn’t really exist the way it was back when. Elvis Presley was a punk and John F. Kennedy was a punk and Jim Morrison was a punk and Iggy Pop is a punk.

Steve Harris: How ’bout Joey Ramone?

Joey Ramone: And Joey Ramone is a punk. And punk means somebody that it’s an attitude and it’s something that’s osmose in your guts that makes you swing. It’s like I don’t wanna to conform, I don’t wanna be like everybody else, I don’t wanna be a part of the masses. I wanna be my individual self just the way I see it, having your own ideals and own set of principles and doing it your way, when a lot of people, they’re gonna turn on you because you’re going against the rules or the grain or whatever. And there’s nothing wrong with that at all. That’s the right way to be.

Steve Harris: Do you think people like being-

Joey Ramone: See, we’re commercial without trying to be commercial. If you look at the music of the ’60s, it was all the great music and all the songs were great and all the artists were unique and innovative and great for the most part. And nowadays, it’s nothing like that. Everybody’s like White Lion and Poison and Bon Jovi and all this shit for the most part.

Steve Harris: What makes that shit, though?

Joey Ramone: It’s just… I’m not saying it’s… There’s nothing clever. There’s nothing exciting about it. There’s nothing unique about it. It’s like the ease… It’s like, yeah, I’m a rock and roll star and the way I feel, I don’t want to be a rock and roll star. I enjoy being myself. I don’t wanna live like they live. I wanna live like I live. I enjoy the simpler things. I’m not taken by a stretch limousines and stuff like that. I admire people who are unique and are themselves and in themselves creative and unique, like David Byrne or something like that or David Bowie or I guess a lot of the greats who are dead now, Lennon or Marc Bolan or Hendrix or Morrison or the most unique people are sort of null or deceased for the most part.

Steve Harris: Why do kids lap that stuff up though, the Bon Jovis and the Poisons?

Joey Ramone: Because, I hate to say it, but there’s this, I guess, it’s sort of a mentality.

Steve Harris: A flaw in the mentality?

Joey Ramone: It’s just that they don’t… Kids for the most part, there’s this conservatism that’s really intense throughout the last few years, where kids aren’t really very adventurous and the ones that are a minority. I know things have changed and I know kids I think are getting fed up and disgusted and they’re kind of disillusioned with these kinds of groups. They go to see these bands, but they don’t get any satisfaction or fulfillment. When they leave, they feel they didn’t anything out of the concert. When they come to see The Ramones, it’s an experience. As soon as you walk into that room, it’s like we’re all together here and it’s a total experience. People want to become part of… they want to be part of something. Come to see The Ramones, you’re part of something. Going to see a band like White Lion, you walk into a concert arena and they’re here and you’re over here and there’s a gap in the middle and that’s it. And what are you getting out of it? And I really think they feel kind of cheated. And I think for the ones who really do feel, know they’re being screwed or taken. The ones who don’t know will never know.

Steve Harris: I think about “Ramones Aid” and also “Bonzo Goes To Bitburg.” Are these signs of change? Also your participation in “Sun City.” Are you becoming more politically vocal?

Joey Ramone: Well, yes and no. We’ve always been aware. The Ramones are a multi-dimensional band. And when we first started out, we were coming off the heels of Vietnam, and everybody was anti-Vietnam and everybody was singing anti-war songs, whether it be Bob Dylan or Joan Baez or Country Joe and the Fish or whoever it be. We didn’t wanna be doing what they were doing. Basically, our songs in the earlier days were more about alienation and frustration, stuff like that. But I guess around ’84, the world was changing drastically with Iran and Qaddafi and all this stuff and it was the Death Squads and it was getting scary. So our songs, things started changing basically with ourselves as far as the way we were seeing things, the way we were writing. We’ve always been serious, so I want to say we’re getting serious now. The world’s a different place nowadays so it definitely affects you. A song like “Bonzo Goes To Bitburg,” we were really disgusted while we were watching the news and saw Reagan going over to Germany and felt we had to do something. It sort of just was an urgency. With “Sun City,” Little Steven called me up and “Bonzo,” he was saying, was his favorite song and he was putting together all different walks of various musicians together from all different walks of music. He’s always been into the issues and stuff and really sort of turned me on to the whole thing because from the news and newspapers, he’d really sort of opened my eyes. ‘Cause basically that’s what the “Sun City” project was all about was to hold people’s eyes and minds and sort of raise our consciousness in the sense. That whole situation was really sick. And “Ramones Aid”, it was sort of a double entendre. Every week there was a different aid for something or other. It sort of became a bit of a joke. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with getting involved, it’s good, it’s healthy, but I guess that was sort of poking fun at it a bit. Obviously, people were jumping on the bandwagon after Live Aid. We were raising Ramones consciousness.

Steve Harris: Many decades from now, are you still singing “Blitzkrieg Bop?”

Joey Ramone: Well, you do it as long as you feel you you’re doing something special. If it’s not in you no more, it’s time to move on to something else. And that’s the problem with most bands and musicians, they just don’t know when it’s time to move on to something else and it’s kind of sad and pathetic in a lot of ways. And especially if you really admire somebody and they come back, they make this comebacks, everyone’s making these comebacks, and for the most part, they’re all doing it ’cause they’re broke, ’cause they blew the money on drugs or whatever. In some ways, you understand, well, there’s a lot of money to be made. That’s why the Rolling Stones will go on forever, Keith Richards is great and stuff, but that’s the case. The Stones can make a killing and they know it. They already broke up, they’re broken up right now this instant, but I read in “Rolling Stone” they’re getting back together ’cause Mick Jagger, his two solo albums flopped and Keith Richards’ album flopped too. But at least Keith wanted to keep the Stones together and it was Jagger who sort of took off there. And seeing Aerosmith back, it’s exciting seeing them back, ’cause they have a good, healthy attitude. They’re all cleaned up and they’re doing good things. But you see a lot of bands coming back. It’s like I saw that thing, in the “Atlantic”, 40th anniversary. Did you see, Crosby, Stills, and Nash? Oh my god! Or Led Zeppelin, for that matter. Oh my god. Give me a break!

Steve Harris: Do you think anybody’s pointing the finger at you guys, when are The Ramones gonna go onto something new?

Joey Ramone: Go onto something new? Well, what do you mean?

Steve Harris: It’s like you said, it seems like you guys have pretty much been pursuing, doggedly pursuing this thing.

Joey Ramone: You just about us writing songs like “Bonzo Goes To Bitburg.” We’re always changing. We have a definite sound, but we’re always changing and we’re always growing. Your philosophy and your ideologies, well, they change. Every day is a new learning experience, that’s the way I look at it. It’s exciting being here in Japan. We don’t have to come to Japan. We could stay… We could do world tours in New Jersey. We do very well everywhere. But it’s exciting, it’s exciting touring the world. It’s a new experience and it’s a new adventure, that’s how I see it. Matter of fact, this year we’re going to be doing… We’re on a world tour now and we’re going to a lot of new territories we haven’t been and then we’ve broken new turf for bands. We were the first band to go back to Italy when there all the riots and stuff. Patti Smith and Lou Reed... We went back and, well, that was our first time, but it was great. We let them know it was safe. And with Spain and Portugal and Brazil and Argentina, New Zealand We’ve been everywhere, just about. And this year we’re going to Israel and Greece and going back to South America. It’s just very exciting. Very exciting being here. The last time we were here was in 1980 and it’s great to be back.

Steve Harris: This trip to Japan is very timely and this magazine also puts out at a magazine that specializes in Japanese rock. And you interview all these young acts now, you say, what band influenced you the most? They don’t say the Pistols. They don’t say the Clash. They say The Ramones. I guess obviously somebody is plugging into that core. It doesn’t surprise you.

Joey Ramone: Nah, I mean, it’s always exciting to hear this. I never get to the point where I’m not excited to hear that someone’s been influenced by us or directly… I met Lars and Metallica came to see us in Kentucky last year and he told us that he had seen us in Copenhagen I guess in ’80 and after that, he formed Metallica because of us. I feel in ’76, we revolutionized rock and roll and really changed the world, brought a new attitude, a new excitement to music.

Steve Harris: Do you think rock and roll has sufficiently paid you back for all your contributions?

Joey Ramone: No, no, we never really… I think things are starting to become a bit more justified for us, but it’s only been in the last couple of years that you feel like you’re get some justification back. In New York, they have the New York Music Awards and we got this lifetime achievement award. That was great. Made me feel like Frank Sinatra, the Chairman of the Board. And the year before, we won for best album of the year and best import single of the year. But we never really completely got any kind of our just due, say. But then on the other hand, we maintained our self-respect and our integrity and our ideals and that’s the best, to be able to do it your way and be able to carry on and maintain doing it your way and not compromise and not kiss ass, but where your ideals and your principles are intact and your initial beliefs are intact and you’re still doing it that way. That’s the best, to be able to walk down the street and kids come up to you and say, you guys are the best, for other bands, to come up to you and say, you guys are the best, or critics or whoever, that’s the ultimate. That’s more important than getting any kind of award or gold records or this or that. To be able to have really done something major for music that’s really changed it in a positive way, that’s exciting because The Ramones have always been a positive band.