The Tapes Archive

Joan Rivers: Understand.

Marc Allan: Oh, that’s all right. I figure you’ve got more to do than I do. So I’m not–

Joan Rivers: No, you got very rushed today.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Well, good. You have a few minutes for me now.

Joan Rivers: Of course.

Marc Allan: So that’s fine. The one thing that I have never seen written about that you have done that I thought was extraordinary was the day of the Challenger disaster and when you were hosting “The Tonight Show” and got out there and, I think, I mean, you handled that as amazing, you know, so amazingly well.

Joan Rivers: Thank you.

Marc Allan: How did, what was the thoughts? What was going on that–

Joan Rivers: The thoughts were that I am not gonna do a monologue when the whole country is in utter bereavement and there’s a major fight in the dressing room about it and the producers said, “No, no, this is the Carson formula. “This is the Carson format and this is what we do “and you do what we tell you to do.” And my husband said, “Then you just don’t do the show “and you walk.”

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm.

Joan Rivers: And it got really that sticky. Finally, they said, “All right, you don’t have to do it.” And I just came out and said what we all were feeling and then we did the show. An interview show is fine but jokes are not fine.

Marc Allan: Yeah, I mean it just, I think everybody was just numb that day.

Joan Rivers: Oh, beyond.

Marc Allan: And, you know, that was just a great way to handle it. What kind of reaction did you get from it?

Joan Rivers: Only positive mail. Everything was positive. NBC never mentioned it again because NBC was the producers. You know, it’s “The Tonight Show”. It was never brought up again.

Marc Allan: They pretty much denied you any success they had, didn’t they?

Joan Rivers: Totally. They never told you when you were right. It was always a thing of a non-comment. So when I was right on that, it was just, there were non-comments, which meant you know you were right. That’s so far behind, so far in the past. Who cares?

Marc Allan: That’s true. But, you know, I was looking at a lot of clips and I have never seen that mentioned anywhere.

Joan Rivers: Yeah, and that part’s wonderful. I mean, just sitting there and do some bashing is, you know, is stupid at this point.

Marc Allan: Yeah, okay.

Joan Rivers: Thank you for remembering. That’s wonderful.

Marc Allan: Yeah, well it really made, you know, it made a strong impact because, you know, usually the monologue, even if the jokes are funny they’re forgotten in a while but, you know, you don’t forget that day and you don’t forget something like that, especially when you’re looking for a laugh or something to get yourself going. Anyway, onto other things. Kind of an open-ended question here. What gives you the strength to be Joan Rivers?

Joan Rivers: Who knows? I just have a lot of energy. Feelings that makes me different from anybody else. I think I have more energy than anyone of my friends. It’s just pure energy that gets me through the day.

Marc Allan: And I’m thinking also the strength to have endured some of the things that you’ve had.

Joan Rivers: Everybody’s endured. Everybody’s endured. How old are you?

Marc Allan: 31.

Joan Rivers: You’ve gone through something already.

Marc Allan: Yeah, but it didn’t happen in public.

Joan Rivers: No, that’s different. That’s the flip side of the coin with all of us. That’s the bad part of celebrity. But then the good part of celebrity is to get almost a hundred thousand condolence notes from strangers, I mean, so you went through the horror in public, but you also got the comfort of the public.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm.

Joan Rivers: See, I really think everything has got a ying and a yang.

Marc Allan: True, but I don’t know. I think if I went through, you know, some tragedies I would want to go through them, you know, without

Joan Rivers: Private.

Marc Allan: people knowing, yeah. Absolutely.

Joan Rivers: Well, we don’t have the, we just, and you do. I mean, you really finally mourn totally alone in the privacy of your bedroom. You know, at the privacy of your house.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Okay. Along those lines, what do you think gave you the nerve to say some of the things that you’ve said about people or whatever?

Joan Rivers: Truth. Truth. I only think, I say what I truly think and that’s, I’ve never said anything I didn’t truly believe.

Marc Allan: Does that make you, I think that makes you different from most of the other people in show business.

Joan Rivers: Well, it just makes me, like me or don’t like me. Boy, a lot of people don’t like me. But thank God, knock on wood, a lot of people do, so. So you can’t change. I think one of the reasons they do like me, those that like me, is because I really never bullshit them. I always say exactly what I truly think and believe, including when Elizabeth Taylor was fat. She was fat!

Marc Allan: Yes.

Joan Rivers: She was a house.

Marc Allan: Right.

Joan Rivers: I mean, she needed, you know, her slacks said pass or don’t pass on the back. She was a hefty lady at that point.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh. But you later went back or did, did you apologize for those things? Am I remembering that correctly?

Joan Rivers: Not apologize. I called to see whether or not it would hurt her.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh.

Joan Rivers: And she told our mutual friend it wasn’t hurting her, which is great.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh.

Joan Rivers: And then when she got thin, then when she went into, then when we found out what the whole problem was and it wasn’t just a lady eating and being, you know, fat, that it was a whole drug thing and a whole booze thing then, of course, I stopped immediately. Then you’re not dealing with someone that’s just funny. You’re dealing with someone that’s ill and that’s a whole other thing.

Marc Allan: Is the mutual friend somebody that’s known?

Joan Rivers: Roddy McDowall.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay. So he basically, you asked him to ask her?

Joan Rivers: Exactly.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh, I see. Oh, all right. How about the new show? Is this, have you mellowed, do you think?

Joan Rivers: Oh no. I just came from a meeting. No, no, no, not at all. No. Just as sassy as ever, I hope.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh, okay.

Joan Rivers: But it’s doing very well and we’re all very happy with it. They just sent us a huge cake, our distributor.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm.

Joan Rivers: Because we got very good numbers last week.

Marc Allan: How many stations are picking up the show now?

Joan Rivers: 144.

Marc Allan: So that’s pretty good for, ’cause you’ve been on since, not even a year yet, right?

Joan Rivers: No, oh no. We’re on seven months.

Marc Allan: Seven months.

Joan Rivers: And daytime takes forever.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh, uh-huh, and I know that here, at least, I think you’ve been moved on one of the stations from, you know, one hour to another.

Joan Rivers: Which is usually very difficult ’cause people are used to seeing you at a certain time.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers:  And suddenly, I wish you would put where they moved it to, then.

Marc Allan: I will. It’s interesting ’cause, if I’m remembering this correctly, I think you moved into the spot that they canceled “Regis and Kathie Lee” and you, you know, I’m sure that the people who watch that are probably not the same people who are watching you.

Joan Rivers: You’d be surprised. I think my people, maybe they just watch them because they didn’t have a chance to watch us .

Marc Allan: That’s possible too. The one time that I have been able to catch the show, ’cause I’m not home during the day, but it was the Howard Stern, Angela Bowie thing.

Joan Rivers: That was so much fun. That was terrific television.

Marc Allan: Yeah. That was one of the reasons that I asked if you were mellower because I thought that the Joan Rivers that I would see on “The Tonight Show” would have badgered Angela Bowie a little bit and I didn’t think you did that at all. In fact, it took Howard to really to badger.

Joan Rivers: Get it out of her.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Is that a mistaken impression on my part?

Joan Rivers: No, it was just she had come on so sweet and so good that I was really taken in by that nonsense. I was so glad for how, and we were also having fun too. It’s like bringing a friend on and gossiping and dishing. I loved, it was his idea to say, “Bring her back.” I was so glad we did.

Marc Allan: Were you surprised when he got her to say what she said?

Joan Rivers: No, ’cause it was all in the notes. She was gonna say that. I was fuming inside because she had played suddenly so coy. I don’t know.

Marc Allan: Yeah, but wouldn’t the Joan Rivers that I’ve come to know would have hammered her for that.

Joan Rivers: Up to a point. You can’t be too hard on a guest because, in a sense, your viewer is your guest psychologically. You know, and they’re identifying with the guest. If you slam everybody hard, the viewer won’t come back.

Marc Allan: Yeah, okay.

Joan Rivers: It’s a very thin line to walk.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Is it different on nighttime than daytime? Well, night has much more entertainment. Day has much more content. I enjoy daytime more because you really can do both.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm, okay. One of the, we have an article coming up in our Sunday TV section, I think written by somebody from the LA Times and he was talking about that the daytime talk shows have become a court, basically, that you’re hearing one side of an issue and pronouncing sentence and actually used you as an example and, if you’d bear with me for a second I’ll pull it out.

Joan Rivers: Yes, please.

Marc Allan: And tell you exactly what he said. I’ll read you a little bit of it. He starts out by saying, it’s Howard Rosenberg of the LA Times.

Joan Rivers: He doesn’t like me to begin with.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay. Well, he starts the quote with a quote, quoting you saying, “This is crazy. “Why aren’t these people in jail?” And it says, “Joan Rivers is incredulous. “She is outraged and no wonder. “She has just heard three divorced parents charge “on her syndicated talk show that their young children “have been sexually abused while in court-ordered custody “of the other parent. “Each has told Rivers a similar story “of a separate, cold, indifferent judge “who had ignored or rejected the evidence “presented by the good parent “and perpetuated child stay with the bad parent. “In effect, America is told this “was court-mandated sexual abuse. “Rivers is beside herself, “her face twisted into an expression of intense suffering. “She demands to know what’s going on here.” And then he said, “Court is what’s going on here. “Talk show court, the TV phenomenon of the 80s.” Then it says, “Lose in real court, “take your case to a more sympathetic talk show court.” Do you think that he’s got a point?

Joan Rivers: Absolute point. I think that you sit with people for 20 minutes and you know if they’re telling you the truth or not. I know exactly which case he was talking about. Each lady, it was circumstantial evidence or lawyer’s trick or something. You know what I’m saying. Or we didn’t file on time that caused what happened to happen. No, I don’t do that unless I really believe what I’m talking about.

Marc Allan: Okay. Should there be another side of the story presented?

Joan Rivers: If they can be, it should be. I’m always asking for that. We’re having that as a matter of fact. We had on some people who hated their stepfather last week and they’re coming on with the stepfathers as a rebuttal.

Marc Allan: Okay, so–

Joan Rivers: I think, again, he’s a man and I’m a woman and when I sit with the mothers I’m telling you we’re right and he’s talking about courts that are run by men, judges that are men, and things that will not be faced, and judges that will not allow the words sexual abuse to come into the courtroom, so he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm. Let me–

Joan Rivers: How dare he judge us.

Marc Allan: Yeah, okay. Do you feel like you have to be more of a journalist when you’re working on the daytime?

Joan Rivers: Oh sure, and it’s much more fun. Puts your brain back to work.

Marc Allan: Do you feel, I imagine you feel qualified.

Joan Rivers: Well, I don’t know if I’m qualified as a journalist. I was an English major, as a philosophy minor. I got out of Barnard and I’m inquisitive and it’s wonderful.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers: I’m not any stupider than Oprah. I’m not any stupider than Sally Jessy. I’m not any stupider than Barbara Walters, okay. So I think I don’t qualify as a major journalist, but I sure think I’m intelligent. I listen. I try to ask questions that are intelligent.

Marc Allan: Yeah. If people knew you privately, do you think they’d–

Joan Rivers: They’d say I’m stupid.

Marc Allan: No.

Joan Rivers: Stupid.

Marc Allan: Not that you were stupid, but I just have this sort of impression that, at least 50% of it is a put-on, that you’re a little more relaxed at home.

Joan Rivers: Well, you’re very different with your friends, of course. Of course. That’s why they’re your friends.

Marc Allan: Yeah, yeah. I guess so.

Joan Rivers: Right?

Marc Allan: But even, but they’re your friends even if, you know, even if sometimes you act like a jerk. You know?

Joan Rivers: Yeah, of course.

Marc Allan: Hopefully they’re still your friends.

Joan Rivers: They’re your friends when, your friends when you don’t want to be funny and they’re your friends if you’re depressed. I mean, of course.

Marc Allan: Another thing I found in clips while doing a little research.

Joan Rivers: You did a lot of research.

Marc Allan: More than usual, but not that much . But anyway, we had in our library a 1968 “TV Guide” article about you and one of the things that it was describing was your brand of comedy and it talked about how you made yourself the victim of all your jokes. That seems to have changed over the years. How’s that for an impression? Is that accurate?

Joan Rivers: I’m not really, when you see my act a lot of it still is, “I’m not attractive,” which is true, and, I can’t, a lot of if I am still the victim. But in the beginning, when I first started out, I was called a female Woody Allen. They wanted to give me a label. That was a very easy label for them to give and it was a lot of stuff. I can’t get married. I can’t find a husband. Which is all true, at that point.

Marc Allan: But, hey, that’s not a bad label, you know .

Joan Rivers: No. It’s a great label. They just didn’t know what to call me. Oh, she’s a female Woody Allen.

Marc Allan: Yeah, well if you’re gonna be compared, you might as well be compared to the best.

Joan Rivers: Tiffany’s.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Let me see. What else? Interestingly, another thing that I came upon and I think this is probably the last thing I came upon that I wanted to ask you about, was there was an article where David Letterman was quoted just after you left “The Tonight Show” saying that he thinks show business may be the one area where burning bridges doesn’t mean anything.

Joan Rivers: Oh, I think he’s absolutely right.

Marc Allan: You think he’s right?

Joan Rivers: Yeah. I think if they want you, they’ll come right back. Nobody has any morals. Nobody, when they say, the joke is, “I’ll never work for you again,” dot, dot, dot. Unless I have to.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh.

Joan Rivers: And we all know that.

Marc Allan: Do you think that, would “The Tonight Show” ever come back to you?

Joan Rivers: Stranger things have happened.

Marc Allan: Yeah?

Joan Rivers: Stranger things have happened in our business. You know that. That’s what makes our business, in a way, wonderful, because it’s absolutely serendipitous, if there’s such a word. You just don’t know. Who’s on the phone? You’re kidding! How much? Okay.

Marc Allan: Has that happened to you before?

Joan Rivers: In different ways, oh sure.

Marc Allan: Can you give me an example.

Joan Rivers: I’m just trying to think, but there’ve been hotels that, I worked the Harris Hotels for a long time and absolutely didn’t want me to headline, didn’t want me to headline. I went somewhere else to headline very bitterly and two years later they called me up with this incredible deal to come back. I mean, that goes on all the time.

Marc Allan: So if you can make ’em money or do some good for them, they’ll be happy to have you back?

Joan Rivers: Of course.

Marc Allan: The last thing that I read about, “The Tonight Show” flap, was your side of it, the family, no it’s not called family week.

Marc Allan: No, it was, was it “USA Weekend” or something like that? Yeah, it’s sort of a “USA Today” format, “Parade Magazine” that’s in some newspapers, and basically it said that you had actually tried to contact Carson beforehand.

Joan Rivers: Oh, of course.

Marc Allan: Why do you think that part of the story never got out?

Joan Rivers: NBC went to work to destroy me and rightfully so. It’s all money. I was going into direct competition with the, now, you’re going into direct competition with them, what do you think they’re gonna say? “This is a wonderful girl. “Good luck”?

Marc Allan: Well, you know.

Joan Rivers: It’s a business and millions of dollars. Each rating point is millions of dollars. You know that.

Marc Allan: Yeah, but it’s hard to believe–

Joan Rivers: Millions of dollars!

Marc Allan: That they’re that cutthroat.

Joan Rivers: They don’t want you to move in and take six rating points away.

Marc Allan: Yeah, yeah. I guess it’s just hard to fathom that it’s that cutthroat, you know.

Joan Rivers: Oh, you know, I’ll do a show. When I was on “The Tonight Show” and someone would come on to plug a movie and if it wasn’t on NBC, you could never see what network it was on.

Marc Allan: Right. That’s still true, although, yeah, they seem to make jokes about it. But sure. Okay.

Joan Rivers: Money. Nobody’s there for entertainment except the poor, stupid entertainers like me. They’re all there because it’s a business.

Marc Allan: What do you think of Johnny Carson?

Joan Rivers: I don’t.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Not at all, huh?

Joan Rivers: Not at all. I’m in such a different life now. I’m sitting here at a hit show, you know. My life has turned around. My daughter is fine. I’m living in New York City. I don’t think about it. Absolutely don’t think about it.

Marc Allan: Did you think at all about just walking away from it after a while? I mean, after, you know, with your husband and with “The Tonight Show” nonsense and everything and just saying, “Ah, screw it.” You know? “I’ve got enough money. “I can live without this.”

Joan Rivers: Well, A, I didn’t have enough money.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay.

Joan Rivers: Fox never paid me what they promised.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh.

Joan Rivers: I remember there was a big reason why I went back. But no, I knew I’d go crazy. Just sitting alone in Connecticut was not where I wanted to be.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm, did anybody advise you that way or did everybody say, “Geez, get back.”

Joan Rivers: I had no advisors. I had nobody.

Marc Allan: Yeah. What about your daughter?

Joan Rivers: My daughter was a child recovering from her father’s suicide.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Joan Rivers: I didn’t want to, A, I didn’t want to give her my problems. My god, she had enough of her own problems.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm. Back to your show. If you were gonna say what makes your show different from the other daytime shows, aside from you, obviously, is there something different?

Joan Rivers: We’re not one topic. We’re much more fun. And you get everything. You get the seriousness of Oprah and you get the sincerity of Phil and you get the, not inquisitive, but the probing of Sally Jessy, and you get the fun of me and the fun of Regis. You get it all mixed into one and we have four, five subjects a day. It’s okay if you don’t want to hear about. Relax. We’re gonna bring Kirk Douglas out in a second.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh, okay. And this may, I don’t know how this is gonna sound, but it’s not mean to sound, well, I’ll just say it. It seems to me that over the course of time, your public life, that you’ve gone through more, as many new Joan Rivers as there were new Nixons.

Joan Rivers: Hysterical.

Marc Allan: Yeah, it’s amazing. You know, is that something that you, can you look at that? I mean, do you look back?

Joan Rivers: I’ve never even thought about it ’cause it’s just, some of you get a handle for a story.

Marc Allan: Uh-huh. Okay.

Joan Rivers: Does that make? I never change. I grow, of course, I change when I perform. If you see me on a stage live now I’m sure I’m different than what you saw five years ago. I hope in five years I’ll be different again. You constantly evolve. You’re not gonna paint this work. Obviously, it changes. Right?

Marc Allan: Sure.

Joan Rivers: I’m not comparing myself to any of these people. I can show you an early Georgia O’Keefe and a middle Georgia O’Keefe and a late Georgia O’Keefe. Totally different. So of course you change, but it’s by working every day. You hope you’re changing.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Then again, you know, there aren’t that many people who have the guts to change.

Joan Rivers: You don’t do it consciously.

Marc Allan: No. Hmm. Yeah, I guess you’re right. Yeah . Now I think about it. I mean, hopefully I’m writing differently than I was five years ago.

Joan Rivers: Your brain, you’re writing much more insightfully. And you’re praying you’re a better interviewer.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers: And you’re praying you can understand, “Oh, this one’s snowing me now.”

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers: Yeah right, honey. Let’s get the truth here. I mean, you hope these things are evolving.

Marc Allan: Arsenio, who replaced you, what do you think of him?

Joan Rivers: Well, I ask them to, I volunteered him to replace me since I made him my guest host on Fox. I think there was such a void. They needed somebody young and, quote-unquote, hip.

Marc Allan: You don’t think Letterman fills that?

Joan Rivers: Letterman fills it brilliantly. Brilliantly. The only thing wrong with Letterman, he’s too brilliant sometimes. I like seeing everyone thinks he’s funny.

Marc Allan: So now that you’ve seen Arsenio do this and his ratings are not as good as yours were. Is that correct?

Joan Rivers: No, no.

Marc Allan: It’s not correct or they were?

Joan Rivers: It is correct.

Marc Allan: Oh, it is correct.

Joan Rivers: I was waiting for half of my ratings.

Marc Allan: Yeah, so it’s kind of surprising. I mean, he’s had a long time to build an audience base. What do you think of him as an interviewer and a host?

Joan Rivers: I don’t know. I never watch late night. Please excuse me.

Marc Allan: That’s okay .

Joan Rivers: When I get on with night, I watch CNN, or TNT, or I throw in a tape.

Marc Allan: The thing about him, you know, the thing I like about you is I think you provoke people. You provoke a reaction. I mean, they may hate you or they may like you, but they, you know, they react. Arsenio is, to me, like milquetoast, you know.

Joan Rivers: He’s becoming the way the others are.

Marc Allan: Yeah, well.

Joan Rivers: That was, nobody, they’re always so frightened to take stands. Everybody. Always so frightened because they’ve already been told the people have to love you, the people have to love you. I think they like you ’cause of what you are.

Marc Allan: Yeah, but hell. If they look at what you’ve gone through, you know, just career-wise, you know. They gotta say, you know, it’s just better to not step on any toes.

Joan Rivers: Yeah, but it’s also nice to know when your head hits the pillow that at least you’ve been somewhat honest in your life, I think.

Marc Allan: Okay. Two other things. One is, this is the first time you’ve been here since ’82? Is that right?

Joan Rivers: Yeah.

Marc Allan: Okay.

Joan Rivers: Isn’t that nice?

Marc Allan: Yeah, it’s–

Joan Rivers: So what’s changed?

Marc Allan: I don’t know if you spend much time here but it’s pretty amazing. I mean, I’ve only been here two and a half years.

Joan Rivers: Where’d you come from?

Marc Allan: I’m originally from New York but I was last in Illinois.

Joan Rivers: You miss New York?

Marc Allan: No, not really.

Joan Rivers: I didn’t either till I was away.

Marc Allan: Yeah. Well, you know what, I come back. I like to, there are things there that I like to do. I mean, I like to go to the museums and I like to go to plays. There are restaurants I like to eat at, but I can’t stand being there anymore. I can’t stand crowds. You know. You have to enjoy that kind of life.

Joan Rivers: To be in New York is where I always wanted, ever since I was a child. And to have your work in New York, and successful work, which the show has turned out to be, it’s just such a cookie .

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers: It’s great.

Marc Allan: Oh, I have no doubt about that. You know, if I can be a very successful reporter for “The New York Times”, I think I’d probably feel differently.

Joan Rivers: It’s great to come back and take the shot here.

Marc Allan: The last thing I wanted to ask you is, if you could do it again and you could eliminate the rough parts of your life and keep all the good parts, would you do that?

Joan Rivers: Oh, of course. Of course. If I could eliminate, but keep the good parts?

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Joan Rivers: Oh, absolutely. But if I could only have the good parts by having to go through the rough parts, then I would say, “No, I’ll go through the rough parts.”

Marc Allan: Okay. I wondered about that because I did an interview with Carol Channing a week or two ago and she told me that she got more out of her real Broadway failure than she ever got out of any of her successes.

Joan Rivers: Nonsense, nonsense. I’d rather be in “Hello, Dolly!” than the other one, whatever it was.

Marc Allan: It was called “The Vamp”. But she said that she learned more as an actress from that–

Joan Rivers: Oh yeah.

Marc Allan: Than she did from being in “Hello, Dolly!”.

Joan Rivers: You learn through pain. Of course you learn. And you learn to enjoy your success more.

Marc Allan: And, okay, just one other thing and that is–

Joan Rivers: That’s fine. I’m in no rush.

Marc Allan: Oh, okay. You want to tell people anything about your show?

Joan Rivers: It’s funny, it’s a good hour. You get your money’s worth. I enjoy performing. I hope you enjoy watching.

Marc Allan: Okay, that sounds fine. That’s really all I needed.

Joan Rivers: Are you married or single?

Marc Allan: I’m married.

Joan Rivers: Good. Where’s your wife from?

Marc Allan: She’s from Connecticut.

Joan Rivers: So how does she like moving all over the world with you?

Marc Allan: Since she has a good job here, she likes it . But I think she has not liked moving so much.

Joan Rivers: Yeah, ’cause that’s a killer.

Marc Allan: Yeah, I would think. We’ve moved five times in the last seven years or so. So she’s not enjoyed that at all.

Joan Rivers: Yeah, which you can’t blame her.

Marc Allan: No, no. I don’t blame her. But you’ve gotta move if you’re gonna get a good job. You gotta keep moving.

Joan Rivers: That’s it. I mean, that’s the name of the game until you write your first book. Then you can move anywhere.

Marc Allan: Yeah. I think that one’s a little ways away.

Joan Rivers: The first book or the first screenplay. Then you can say, “And he lives in Barbados.”

Marc Allan: Yeah .

Joan Rivers: That’s okay.

Marc Allan: Was it hard for you to write the books?

Joan Rivers: Everything’s hard for me. Nothing, nothing comes easily. I look at my friends that knock something out and I go, “Well, that’s them.” Can’t everything. I slave over everything.

Marc Allan: I just, I’m just wondering how you do it . I have no idea how you do it.

Joan Rivers: Energy. I swear to God. God gave me a lot of extra energy here.

Marc Allan: Well, I guess so. I mean, I guess that’s what it must be.

Joan Rivers: I just say, “What do you mean you’re tired? “Come on, let’s climb a mountain!” A friend of mine reminded me. We were all in Europe with my husband one year. I mean, really tourist time, right? Through Versailles and through Fontainebleau. I mean, everything in one day. We got back to the hotel in Paris. She said, “Then you walked the stairs up to the suite.” I started to laugh ’cause I forgot that.

Marc Allan: Well, that’s good to have a lot of energy.

Joan Rivers: Good to have a lot of energy.

Marc Allan: Well, I appreciate your time and I’m looking forward to seeing your show.

Joan Rivers: I look forward to seeing you there. Come back and say hello if you’re there.

Marc Allan: I will, I will absolutely.

Joan Rivers: Okay? I’ll be the one stuffed into the dress ’cause I’m fat.

Marc Allan: Will Elizabeth Taylor be making jokes about you?

Joan Rivers: Elizabeth Taylor’s so happy. She saw what I looked like now in a dress. As her figure get better in the hospital, I’ll send her a picture.

Marc Allan: Is the weight gain a result of being happy or is it being successful?

Joan Rivers: The weight gain is working 18 hours a day on the television show and, you know, pizzas come in and fans send you food.

Marc Allan: Oh yeah?

Joan Rivers: Today, somebody just sent me wonderful cookies. You go, “I won’t eat these” and they just sit on the desk. Well, maybe just 10.

Marc Allan: Geez, you’re in New York. Aren’t you afraid to eat what a fan sent?

Joan Rivers: No, because we let the secretary eat it first. We don’t like her. “Hey, Ellen. “Have a cookie, dear.” Then we watch. If she keeps on typing the same page for an hour, we try it.

Marc Allan: Okay, well I will definitely come back and say hi.

Joan Rivers: Please come back and say hello.

Marc Allan: Okay, thank you very much.

Joan Rivers: Thank you again for hanging around. I’m sorry.

Marc Allan: That’s quite all right.

Joan Rivers: Bye-bye.

Marc Allan: Bye-bye.