The Tapes Archive

Marc Allan: Hi, Mr. Aaron?

Hank Aaron: Yeah.

Marc Allan: Hi, it’s Marc Allan. Thanks for talking to me. You worked for the Braves now, right?

Hank Aaron: No, CNN.

Marc Allan: Oh, you work for CNN. Okay, I’m sorry. What is your title?

Hank Aaron: I work for CNN.

Marc Allan: I was asking what, what your job is at CNN.

Hank Aaron: I’m with the Airport Channel.

Marc Allan: What is that?

Hank Aaron: You see TVs in the airport? 

Marc Allan: I didn’t realize they had a separate channel for that.

Hank Aaron: Yeah. Airport Network, it is. OK. And do you have an official job title? No, you know, it’s a lot of politics that goes involved in finally getting the airports to let us come in and put these channels in, you know, because there’s a lot of resentment among the stores, you know, who’s in there. They don’t want people sitting down watching the news because it takes away something from them. They feel like it.

Marc Allan: And of course every airport has an airport authority …

Hank Aaron: Right, right.

Marc Allan: And you’ve got to deal with all that politics.

Hank Aaron: You have to deal with politics, and deal with the airlines, and all that. So, and airlines don’t want you to put the wrong thing on there because God forbid if you have a crash, people don’t want to sit there and look at a crash.

Marc Allan: That’s right.

Hank Aaron: So, there’s a lot of politics involved, you know. That’s basically what I do.

Marc Allan: Okay. Let me, let me ask a few things about the movie. Did the movie come out the way you expected it to be?

Hank Aaron: Yes, it did. I was very pleased with it. I thought that Michael Tollin did an excellent job.

Marc Allan: Do you have much of a hand in it? Were you …

Hank Aaron: Yes, I did.

Marc Allan: OK.

Hank Aaron: Yes I did, very much.

Marc Allan: Tell me what you did.

Hank Aaron: Well, I mean, every part of it that they went through they sent me a part of it so I can see it and OK it. Every time they would shoot a scene, they would come back and they would show it to me, and say, “Do you like it? Is it OK?” And so, I had to either OK it or didn’t.

Marc Allan: Did the scenes that are re-created of you as a kid and of your family at home and all that? How real was it, I guess?

Hank Aaron: It was about as real as it could be. You know, you have to realize that some of it has to be fictitious, you know but most of it was real. You know, like in fact, most of the people that was in there, you know, I was surprised that Michael did a hell of a job of finding these people. I can’t even find them myself. He comes by and finds them. But I would say almost, if I had to put a percentage on it, I would say almost 95% of what happens in that movie was accurate.

Marc Allan: Wow, OK. So that’s great.

Hank Aaron: And I had a reason for doing that because I didn’t a baseball movie. I wanted something that I think that everybody and every kid could be proud of. You know what I mean. I didn’t want somebody saying, “Well, Hank hit a home run.” Because that was not what the movie was about. It was about the trials and tribulations. Tough times, you know?

Marc Allan: Yeah. Yeah, do you know what it is about you that enabled you to weather those tough times? I mean, is it something inside you? Can you put a finger on it?

Hank Aaron: I really can’t say, you know, I suppose anybody I could, it was the good lord that gave me the ability to withstand and to go through some of the things I had to go through, and to keep my eyes on the prize. But, I was that lucky to do it, you know, to play baseball.

Marc Allan: My memories of you are, you know as a great, consistent, dangerous hitter, and the quote that I remember from you out of everything you’ve ever said, I think you said something to the effect of, “I’m not trying to make them forget the Babe, only to remember me.” And the movie either just gave me such a more rounded picture of you. And is it, do you think people remember that you were an activist, that they remember that you spoke out for integration, and all? 

Hank Aaron: Well, you know, I don’t know how people are going to remember me most, whether they, you know, most people say, “I remember you for the home runs, you hit. I remember you for being the kind of ball player that you were. I remember that you played in the World Series in ’57.” And all of that is fine, you know? I mean, that was all of those things were God-given talents. I think that people want to look at me and say what type of person you really were. I was for what was right. You know, I think you see something that’s basically wrong, and it’s my opinion that my voice should speak out on it. You know, that’s speaking out on different issues and things that I see that is wrong. I’m not trying to start anything. I’m not trying get my name up in the headlights, or anything like that, I just basically think that everybody no matter whether it’s black, white, or green, has the right to speak out on behalf of what they see is going on wrong, you know?

Marc Allan: You must have had people at the time, though, telling you, “Don’t say anything,” right? I mean, there was, there was a scene in the movie where when you had bought the car, and the guys tried to run you off, or they did run off the road, And you said that you’re, or the narrator says that the teammates seemed almost more interested in you not talking to the press about it, than how you were feeling. So I take it that there were times where people must have said to you, “Hank, could you not talk about that.”

Hank Aaron: Well, you know, a lot of people are uncomfortable with the truth, you know, especially when you start talking about things like what’s right, and what’s wrong, integration and segregation, whatever you want say. A lot of people are just uncomfortable with that, you know. And, to answer your question, Yes, I was told not to say anything, you know, but I just felt like why shouldn’t I? Why shouldn’t I let people know what was happening? It was just absolutely wrong. You know, I could have been killed, and nobody still would’ve known anything about it, you know?

Marc Allan: Watching the movie, I felt a real sadness in that it seemed like you couldn’t enjoy anything about breaking the record, or the accomplishments, some of your accomplishments. And I’m wondering, are you able to enjoy it more now?

Hank Aaron: Oh yes. Very much so. More than I did then. I’m at peace with myself now more than I was then. But by the same token, it was hell. I caught a lot of flack. I caught a lot of hell. I couldn’t go anywhere. I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t enjoy my kids. I couldn’t enjoy the chase in which I was going through. So, to answer your question, put it plain bluntly, I’m really more at peace with myself now than I was back then.

Marc Allan: Is that just a result of having time on your side, now?

Hank Aaron: I think time heals a lot of things. But you have to remember that this is a new generation of kids. A generation that looks at it. It’s been what, it was ’74, you know, so it’s been a long time that record’s been broken. This is the new generation of people. I think I’ve been, I’ve been appreciated more by this generation than I was by the generation before. Is it just because we’ve made some social progress in this country?

Hank Aaron: Yes, that’s right.

Marc Allan: Do you think that’s it, yeah?

Hank Aaron: Right. Right. I think we look at people. We’ve made progress in this country, and I think people look at you a little bit different since I was 30 years ago.

Marc Allan: In the film, there, there are several instances of juxtaposing you and Martin Luther King and what was going on at the time. There’s no mention made of Malcolm X. Were you interested in Malcolm X? Did Malcolm X have any bearing on you?

Hank Aaron: Oh, I respected him very much so. They just happened to put Dr. King in there, you know? But I respected Malcolm X very much so. A lot of things that he did was very, very true. A lot of things he did was very true. A lot of things he prophesied, and a lot of things come true, you know? I had an awful lot of respect. It just happened that way, you know?

Marc Allan: So that’s just the filmmakers? That’s not you, OK.

Hank Aaron: Yeah, that’s just the filmmakers.

Marc Allan: We were talking about not enjoying the record. This season we watched Cal Ripken break that record. Did you feel, I mean, you probably, you more than anybody else had some idea of what he was going through with all the press, and being counted.

Hank Aaron: But I don’t think that he has anything near, near of what I went through.

Marc Allan: Oh, he didn’t have to hatred. That’s for sure.

Hank Aaron: No. That’s what I’m saying. So, I think that Cal was able to enjoy the record, as Pete Rose was able to enjoy breaking Ty Cobb’s record. But mine was altogether different.

Marc Allan: When you first started getting letters about, you know, hatred and death threats and things like that, did you understand that at all? I mean, ’cause it seems like it must’ve been a really foreign experience, probably.

Hank Aaron: Yeah, I was confused.

Marc Allan: Yeah.

Hank Aaron: I was confused. I didn’t know whether I was doing something wrong or what. Then I started thinking, I said, “Hey, you know, we got some sick people in this country, regardless to whether they black or white, you just got some sick people that don’t want to see anybody move, you know? And yet, I looked back, and I started really thinking about it. And it wasn’t so long ago that Babe Ruth broke this record. I mean, that tied this record, you know, 714 home runs. I look back and I said, you’re reading all of the clippings across the country, newspaper clippings across this country, all of them, I mean, to a, almost to a T, would tell you that the most unbreakable record would have been 714. 714 home runs. Absolutely no sports writers said that that record was ever going to be approached. And yet, when I approach, when I broke it, when I played and I broke it, it became secondary. Then it was the 60th. It was Joe DiMaggio’s hitting streak became the unbreakable record. And after that it was Lou Gehrig game record. So, you know, every time something happened, it always played that little part of it down. And yet, there was nothing I can do about it, because my mother always said, “Things you have no control over don’t worry about.” So, I, you know, as I said before, I’m at peace with myself. I don’t worry about it. I don’t have any control over what people say.

Marc Allan: You played for the Indianapolis Clowns, but the Indianapolis Clowns never really played in Indianapolis, did they?

Hank Aaron: It was more of a barnstorming.

Marc Allan: It’s probably likely that unless you played a AAA game here, you never played in Indianapolis, did you?

Hank Aaron: I don’t know that I did. You know, really, I’m trying to think of that. I think I did play a game in Indianapolis. I don’t know whether it was with the Indianapolis Clowns, or whether I was with the, in the major leagues, or what, you know? I really don’t know. And let me just say there’s not too many cities or states that I didn’t play in.

Marc Allan: Right.

Hank Aaron: You know, when you played, as long as I did, you make them all one way or the other.

Marc Allan: Yeah, and considering you were 20 when you made it to the majors, right?

Hank Aaron: I was, I just turned 20, yeah.

Marc Allan: You just turned 20.

Hank Aaron: Yeah, right.

Marc Allan: Yeah. And that’s amazing considering guys aren’t making it till they’re like 25 now in a lot of places.

Hank Aaron: Right. Right.

Marc Allan: Johnny Bench has this great quote at the end of the movie about him saying, you know, he would never thought of himself getting a tattoo, but if he were in your position, maybe he’d get like, “I hit 755 homers,” tattooed on his forehead. And I wonder, you were, are so famous and so legendary, and I just wonder, do you ever wake up in the morning and just say to yourself, “Geez, I’m Hank Aaron”?

Hank Aaron: Not really. You know, I think I’ve taken that with a grain of salt. You know, all of the accomplishments and everything that I’ve accomplished while I was playing baseball, the 23 years in which I was blessed long enough to play, I have to give credit to a lot of people. You know, I played on some very good baseball teams. I played with some very good baseball players. I was spared going into service for two years. I didn’t ever have a have what they call a major, major injury. You know, I did have my both ankle cracked, but it wasn’t like I was going to miss a half of a season. So I was blessed in more ways than one. You know, and sometime I look at it and say I was put here to do something incredible. And that’s what happened, you know, the good lord looked after me, you know, because I did come up with 18-year-olds who was gone into service. I was right in the middle of the Korean war, when they were drafting the 18-year-olds, you know, and especially Black kids, you know. You was 18, your chances of going into service, you were there. I was spared that, you know? I went in, took my physical, and I passed the physical. And then I was scheduled to go into service that next year. And when they got back to me, I had two kids. So they said, “Hey, we can find somebody else.” You know, they don’t want to pay for that. So, all of that, you know, I was lucky enough to do it that way. And then, you know, I broke my ankle, I broke my ankle the last, September the 5th, the season was over and I had all winter to recuperate. And then, I was fortunate enough to move to Atlanta, where the weather was very, very conducive and good for me and my style of hitting. I’d just begin to start pulling the ball. And I was playing with some very good ball players. I was blessed to play with Matthews for a number of years. He and I pulled all-time record for home runs. And later on, Rico Carty and Joe Torre, and you know, I can just go on and on and on. So all of these things just put together, you know, I mean it spelled success, and I just took advantage of it.

Marc Allan: You mentioned in the movie at one point you were making $200,000, I think. Is that, was that pretty much your top salary?

Hank Aaron: My top salary was $240,000.

Marc Allan: $240,000. Isn’t that unbelievable? I want to ask you this on a couple of ways. I mean, one is in the movie, there’s a scene of you in the World Series hitting a basically a 460-foot triple. Do you think the game is easier now?

Hank Aaron: I can’t say, you know, I really can’t say, you know. I haven’t, I’ve not played it. I don’t know. I really can’t answer that and be honest with you, because I don’t know all of the things you might … Today, you might ask somebody who’s playing today, and they might say it’s harder to play today than it was for the guys that played when I was playing. You might ask somebody when I was playing, they may say it was harder to play then than it is today, you know? I really don’t know, you know. The only thing I can say, in all fairness, is that athletes today can stay in better shape than athletes was a few years ago because they don’t have to worry about going to work the next, the day after the season, you know. They can build their own gym in the house and they can do whatever they want to do now. You know, I don’t know, you know. But you also have to take into consideration that players today, athletes today, they jump further, they run further, they do a lot of things better, you know, than athletes did when I played, you know. So, you know, but it’s hard to say, you know. Somebody gonna tell me that Ted Williams couldn’t hit it in this era, in any era? They gotta be crazy. They tell me Willie Mays couldn’t play in any era, you know, they gotta be crazy, you know? So they can’t tell me that Maddux couldn’t pitch in any era, you know, out of, you know, so it’s kind of hard to say, you know, it really is hard to say whether it was easier to play then than it is to play now, you know.

Marc Allan: And when you look at the money that the guys make now, do you have any particular feeling about that? Is it too much or is it …

Hank Aaron: Well, you know, hey, you know, I can’t say whether. They make a hell of a lot of money. I didn’t make it, and I wished I had made it when I was playing. It wasn’t fair, but I don’t begrudge any player that can make everything that he can make, you know. You see franchises now, they wouldn’t consider this city, for example, just before they’re beginning to have a, like a Russian roulette, they just jumping from city to city. I think what I see is that there is no identification for a team. Just recently you saw the Cleveland Browns moving to Baltimore.

Marc Allan: One of the things that really came through in the movie is how much you loved baseball when you were a kid, and kids today don’t seem to have that kind of affection for the game. And I’m wondering why you think that is and what do you think baseball has to do to get that back?

Hank Aaron: Well, I think one reason, because the players, you know, like for an example, like Deion Sanders plays baseball, plays football, plays basketball, play all these different sports. And I don’t think they ever refine the sport that they should be refining, you know. Deion is a hell of an athlete, and he just gets the minimum out of what he can do. He’s a hell of a football player. So he makes, quite naturally, he makes more money out of football than he does out of baseball. I think he could be a hell of a baseball player if he should put his mind to it. I think that’s one reason we got players just don’t refine the game in which they can play the best.

Marc Allan: OK. But he’s just one example. I mean, what else do you think, I know …

Hank Aaron: Well it’s the same. It’s happens in college. That’s where it happens. Players play all different sports, basketball, football. And they play all of them.

Marc Allan: Oh, OK. So you think when they start as kids, they should start in the sport. They should play with one sport, you know?

Hank Aaron: The only thing I wanted to do was play baseball and I thought I had my hands full trying to play that as well as I could.

Marc Allan: Baseball’s racial barriers were, and Jackie Robinson had everything to do with it, but ultimately it started out by Branch Rickey’s decision. And I’m wondering, could it, was there anything that Black ball players could have done on their own in those days to start the integration process? Or did it have to come from Rickey?

Hank Aaron: Yeah, you couldn’t have started anything back then on your own. It had to come from somebody like Branch Rickey bringing in somebody like Jackie Robinson to make sure that things went over smoothly, as it did. I don’t think that anything that any Black player could have done that he couldn’t have forced owners to sign them. They couldn’t have forced to go with certain clubs. You know, that’s why they formed the Negro Leagues. So it was kind of tough, but it was just lucky enough that Branch Rickey saw what was happening and gave Blacks an opportunity to play in the league.

Marc Allan: But nothing the players could have done to force their hand, OK.

Hank Aaron: No, no.

Marc Allan: Okay. Can anyone break your home run record, do you think?

Hank Aaron: I don’t, you know, I don’t use never. That’s a word that I don’t think that should be used because anything and everything is possible. If somebody had said 100 years, or 50 years ago, would anybody go to the moon? They said never. I can’t say that anybody would have said that Babe Ruth’s record wouldn’t have never been broken. They would’ve said never. Ty Cobb record would have been broken? They said never. I certainly believe that it is possible. I think any and everything is possible. A person can dictate what they want to do. The only thing that’s standing in their way now whether they going to be hungry enough to play 23 years. And that’s the key to it. You know, now if you’re not, then you’re not going to break it, you know, I mean, I was hungry. It wasn’t like after I played 15 years, that I was financially rich, that was not the case.

Marc Allan: Right.

Hank Aaron: You know, I was still hungry. I was hungry because I had a family to support, and I had other things to look after, you know? So I was very hungry. You know, even when I broke the record, I was still not making money that I should have been making. That could be the case with a lot ball players, playing in my era, you know.

Marc Allan: It’s got to make you feel good at the end of the movie, when you got Ken Griffey Jr., and Frank Thomas, and all the other great home-run hitters of the day saying, “No way, can we break that record.”

Hank Aaron: Well, it makes you feel good, but here again, as I said before, seems like it’s so far out of reach, 755 home runs versus whatever they got a hundred home runs, or 200 home runs, because they just started their careers. But as I said before, you know, the older you get, the more you keep doing things, you keep doing things on a regular scale, and you get to a point where you level off, and you hit 35 or 40 home runs every year. You know, these things every year they add up, and first thing you look around, you say, “Hey, I’m within striking distance doing a lot of things.”

Marc Allan: But you look around today, and I mean, and I guess, I hope you think this is an OK comparison, but I was thinking that probably the most comparable player to you right now might be like Eddie Murray. And Eddie Murray’s nowhere near your home-run total. And I just think of him in the same light because he’s a very consistent player. He drives in 75 or more runs every year. He hits, you know in the high .200s, you know, .300s, or thereabouts. So, I can’t imagine that anybody could do it.

Hank Aaron: Well, the important thing is if a player with the ability, and you want to play, can stay hungry enough.

Marc Allan: When you come here, do you have to make a speech?

Hank Aaron: I don’t know. If I do they better hurry up and tell me. I don’t have anything prepared.

Marc Allan: I’d say you probably have a few anecdotes in your past you could talk about. But, yeah, but … Anyway, is there anything else that you want me to tell people about you, or the movie, that we haven’t talked about?

Hank Aaron: No, I’m just I’m looking forward to being in that company.

Marc Allan: Mm-hmm. OK. All right, well, I really appreciate your time. It’s an honor to talk to you.

Hank Aaron: Thank you.

Marc Allan: You were great.

Hank Aaron: I looked forward to seeing it.

Marc Allan: Okay, thank you, take care. Bye-bye.